"Sovereign Citizen"

[j123]

They cherry pick which laws they see comfortable as fit.

This is the best sovereign citizen video out there, P. Barnes is a legend.

Awesome: "That's a nice speech, but you're still not coming in"

 

[BEER]

This dork is going to report the police to Trump Itself <Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>

Edit: First clip.

 

[djacobox372]

Sovereign citizen's simply believe that a human shouldn't be forced to become the subject of a government simply by being born or trying to live their lives.

I get their point, but they're ignoring about 100,000 years of human culture .

 

[Fluffernutter]

See, that's kinda the same question I have too.

Courtrooms in general all have it posted outside "no food, drink (water ok), gum, and please remove sunglasses and hats"

Guy comes in looking like the fucking Unabomber and drinking a Pepsi and has like a box of donuts. Being a clerk, prior to Court I ask him "could you please remove your hat and sunglasses and place the food/drink someplace outside the Courtroom?" As an aside, this is AT LEAST 15 minutes before Court is set to start, so props to him arriving early.
"If I take them out who will watch them?"
"Well, your other option is to go out side the courtroom and finish them before Court starts"
"John... please go outside and take care of it" (his fucking public defender said this)
"Can I speak to your superior?" (directed at me)
"Uuuuuuhhhhh, why?"
"I feel you are ordering me to do something and you don't have the legal authority to do so"
"You're right, I don't... but I'm asking you to follow rules that are posted outside the courtroom"
*I call my superior, SHE tells this guy the same thing... jail transport has brought over the in-custody guys for Arraignment

To cut it a bit shorter it escalates to the point he's fucking SCREAMING at me, in front of about 4 prosecutors, 3 public defenders, and 4 private defense attorneys who I all consider if not "friends" close acquaintances, he's yelling so loud the Judge whose courtroom we are in and the Commissioner who is set to "run" the hearing peek out of the Judge's chambers to see what the commotion is and the dude was SO pissed at me over everything he has to get tased by the fucking jail deputies because he was getting so verbally violent and slamming his fists down on the bar/bench thing that sits between where me and the court reporter sit and where the lawyers stand.

Dude caught a new assault charge for the way he reacted to me with an added addition that in WA any form of assault, even verbal, directed at Court staff/LEOs present in the Courtroom is automatically bumped to felony level.

I don't get it and I just want to understand it a little more.


I've seen something like this play out once before in front of me too:


After the hearing, the Commissioner I was with:
"Holy what the fuck... I hate those types" as we walk back from the jail courtroom

The guy in your story: what was he originally arrested for?

 

[Gregolian]

The guy in your story: what was he originally arrested for?

I think it was Burglary 2 (because he shoplifted from a store he was trespassed from), eluding (he ran from cops), paraphernalia, and drug possession.

 

[7437]

Damn, tried to like my own post. This thread is old as fuck

 

[BearGrounds]

This guy is my favorite sov citizen.



"I live in my body."

 

[Fluffernutter]

I think it was Burglary 2 (because he shoplifted from a store he was trespassed from), eluding (he ran from cops), paraphernalia, and drug possession.

Burglary shows that he really doesn't believe in being a sovereign citizen. I assumed they would believe in doing no harm to other people and private property.

 

[jk7707]

Nothing beats the P. Barnes classic. Also, is it weird I remember this thread even though it's 4 years old?

 

[Curmudgeon]

A must for any sovereign cit video!

 

[HARRISON_3]

They're the best of us, IMO

 

[ShinkanPo]

See, that's kinda the same question I have too.

Courtrooms in general all have it posted outside "no food, drink (water ok), gum, and please remove sunglasses and hats"

Guy comes in looking like the fucking Unabomber and drinking a Pepsi and has like a box of donuts. Being a clerk, prior to Court I ask him "could you please remove your hat and sunglasses and place the food/drink someplace outside the Courtroom?" As an aside, this is AT LEAST 15 minutes before Court is set to start, so props to him arriving early.
"If I take them out who will watch them?"
"Well, your other option is to go out side the courtroom and finish them before Court starts"
"John... please go outside and take care of it" (his fucking public defender said this)
"Can I speak to your superior?" (directed at me)
"Uuuuuuhhhhh, why?"
"I feel you are ordering me to do something and you don't have the legal authority to do so"
"You're right, I don't... but I'm asking you to follow rules that are posted outside the courtroom"
*I call my superior, SHE tells this guy the same thing... jail transport has brought over the in-custody guys for Arraignment

To cut it a bit shorter it escalates to the point he's fucking SCREAMING at me, in front of about 4 prosecutors, 3 public defenders, and 4 private defense attorneys who I all consider if not "friends" close acquaintances, he's yelling so loud the Judge whose courtroom we are in and the Commissioner who is set to "run" the hearing peek out of the Judge's chambers to see what the commotion is and the dude was SO pissed at me over everything he has to get tased by the fucking jail deputies because he was getting so verbally violent and slamming his fists down on the bar/bench thing that sits between where me and the court reporter sit and where the lawyers stand.

Dude caught a new assault charge for the way he reacted to me with an added addition that in WA any form of assault, even verbal, directed at Court staff/LEOs present in the Courtroom is automatically bumped to felony level.

I don't get it and I just want to understand it a little more.


I've seen something like this play out once before in front of me too:


After the hearing, the Commissioner I was with:
"Holy what the fuck... I hate those types" as we walk back from the jail courtroom

Do they smell bad I heard people like that dont bath and dont even wipe after taking dump.

 

[TheComebackKid]

So, I'm not 100% sure this is the right place for this but I couldn't think of a better spot/

The concept of the "sovereign citizen".. I work in my county's Courthouse and do primarily felony stuff. We deal with your usual groupings of truly fucked people (30 years olds trying to sleep with 10 year olds and shit), mental health problems that tried to self medicate with meth or heroin, meth/heroine addicts that now have mental health issues because the drugs have so colossally fucked their brain, people that were in the wrong place at the wrong time...

And then, we get the sovereign citizen types. What exactly is their "thing"? I ask because we have one guy in my county who's name appears as (an example) "JOHN ALFRED DOE" (not actual name obviously) and when asked, "what's your name?" by Judges even he will respond "John Alfred Doe" but refuses to sign court documents because HE claims his name is not on the document and it is referencing someone else (the court documents names in the caption are almost ALWAYS capitalized for every letter).

Like, are these people saying they live in the country but the government has no, well, ability to govern them or something?

I got bored so I started looking stuff up trying to understand it and stumble across this:


I can't tell if these people are trying to find a loophole or they're just fucking stupid or some combo....

Also, the guy I used as an example is of Mexican descent... And my understanding is this whole thing started with the white supremacists in prison.

Heres the idea regarding names and capital letters from what I heard people explain. It has to do with legalese, corporations, and strawman entities. Given you work at a courthouse perhaps you might have some insight.

Within the world of law all contracts and legally recognized documents are processed based on strict language conventions. Example, according to the rules of the English language a corporation is referred to in all capital letters. For example:

JOHN ALFRED DOE

According the conventions of the english language that is a corporation not a person. Corporations are dead entities(corpses) legally speaking. If you are trying to refer to the alive, living and breathing human being then you write his name as:

John Alfred Doe

When we are born there are corporations that get created along with our birth certificate. Some claim you can find your birth certificate on the stock market. Some claim our birth certificates are actually worth fortunes as a stock because its based on our life's production. Enough to wipe out everyones personal debt. These corporations are called "strawman entity":



What that guy is saying is that he is a live, free human being(a soveriegn citizen) not a corporation(dead corpse). By refusing to identify as "JOHN ALFRED DOE" he is saying that whatever rulings, contracts, or legal proceeding regarding this corporation do not apply to him. He believes by identifying as a corporation he is waving certain inalienable, constitution given rights as a free person as well as taking on debts and obligations of a corporation. He believes it is through this legal tricky that elites cyphon our daily production(aka currency) and keep us in perpetual debt while waving our rights, and working 8 hrs a day just to survive.

I can't say how legit all that is but thats where hes coming from and what he believes.

 

[Gregolian]

Heres the idea regarding names and capital letters from what I heard people explain. It has to do with legalese, corporations, and strawman entities. Given you work at a courthouse perhaps you might have some insight.

Within the world of law all contracts and legally recognized documents are processed based on strict language conventions. Example, according to the rules of the English language a corporation is referred to in all capital letters. For example:

JOHN ALFRED DOE

According the conventions of the english language that is a corporation not a person. Corporations are dead entities(corpses) legally speaking. If you are trying to refer to the alive, living and breathing human being then you write his name as:

John Alfred Doe

When we are born there are corporations that get created along with our birth certificate. Some claim you can find your birth certificate on the stock market. Some claim our birth certificates are actually worth fortunes as a stock because its based on our life's production. Enough to wipe out everyones personal debt. These corporations are called "strawman entity":



What that guy is saying is that he is a live, free human being(a soveriegn citizen) not a corporation(dead corpse). By refusing to identify as "JOHN ALFRED DOE" he is saying that whatever rulings, contracts, or legal proceeding regarding this corporation do not apply to him. He believes by identifying as a corporation he is waving certain inalienable, constitution given rights as a free person as well as taking on debts and obligations of a corporation. He believes it is through this legal tricky that elites cyphon our daily production(aka currency) and keep us in perpetual debt while waving our rights, and working 8 hrs a day just to survive.

I can't say how legit all that is but thats where hes coming from and what he believes.

Except the reason the Courst use all capital letters is a far simpler reason.

It's down to fonts. Take Sherdog as an example.

Compare a capital I to a lower case l.

Which is which? And since lots of Court systems are moving to digitally scanning documents or filing electronically, they've begun to move away from fonts like Times New Roman where it's super simple to tell letters apart to things like Calibri and others that are similar to limit the artifacts that show up sometimes when you scan poorly printed documents in Times New Roman.


Case in point. This is a capital I. This is a lower case l

This is the same in Times New Roman:
I l

You can tell them apart. You really can't in Sherdog's default font.

 

[Denter]

Sovereign citizen's simply believe that a human shouldn't be forced to become the subject of a government simply by being born or trying to live their lives.

I get their point, but they're ignoring about 100,000 years of human culture .

These people are parasites- freedom is just a buzzword to them. Man has rights only because he requires them to fulfill his duties, which come first. Sovereign citizens get this backwards, just like- and may Allah forgive me for uttering this word- libertarians.

The reality is that all identity and personality is socially negotiated, and without a society- without mutual rules and obligations, interactions with other people- a man is not even human. The Greeks knew this. Do you have a name if no one calls you by it?

Basically, sovereign citizens are the psychotic children of modernity who never stopped believing in the fairy tales about 'consent of the governed' and 'individual rights'. They should be mocked, and there is nothing sympathetic about their views.

 

[Damien Karras]

Heres the idea regarding names and capital letters from what I heard people explain. It has to do with legalese, corporations, and strawman entities. Given you work at a courthouse perhaps you might have some insight.

Within the world of law all contracts and legally recognized documents are processed based on strict language conventions. Example, according to the rules of the English language a corporation is referred to in all capital letters. For example:

JOHN ALFRED DOE

According the conventions of the english language that is a corporation not a person. Corporations are dead entities(corpses) legally speaking. If you are trying to refer to the alive, living and breathing human being then you write his name as:

John Alfred Doe

When we are born there are corporations that get created along with our birth certificate. Some claim you can find your birth certificate on the stock market. Some claim our birth certificates are actually worth fortunes as a stock because its based on our life's production. Enough to wipe out everyones personal debt. These corporations are called "strawman entity":



What that guy is saying is that he is a live, free human being(a soveriegn citizen) not a corporation(dead corpse). By refusing to identify as "JOHN ALFRED DOE" he is saying that whatever rulings, contracts, or legal proceeding regarding this corporation do not apply to him. He believes by identifying as a corporation he is waving certain inalienable, constitution given rights as a free person as well as taking on debts and obligations of a corporation. He believes it is through this legal tricky that elites cyphon our daily production(aka currency) and keep us in perpetual debt while waving our rights, and working 8 hrs a day just to survive.

I can't say how legit all that is but thats where hes coming from and what he believes.

Well I can say that none of that is legit.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Damn, tried to like my own post. This thread is old as fuck

Yeah, I almost responded to a post from 2016 before I caught myself. These sovereign citizen types are amusing in one sense, but also dangerous.

They are militant libertarians.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I did this thread a ways back.

They're nutty nuts from Nutville. It's in the Nuts district.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

This guy is my favorite sov citizen.



"I live in my body."

Imagine being the next case up. You're wondering, is the judge so pissed right now that I'm screwed regardless or will she happily make my five parole violations go bye bye if I just semi cooperative with her due to the contrast with that kook?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Imagine being the next case up. You're wondering, is the judge so pissed right now that I'm screwed regardless or will she happily make my five parole violations go bye bye if I just semi cooperative with her due to the contrast with that kook?

The funniest one I saw was a video of a court proceeding; the defendant was trying to argue a distinction between person and individual wrt his legal name to skirt the law... I think that was his reasoning.

Finally the judge had enough, and fined him 130 days in jail. The defendant started yelling "But I'm the person Johnny Muhfreedoms!"

The judge replied, "If you see the individual Johnny Muhfreedoms, tell him he's going to jail too."