Futbol South America vs Europe futbol

[Rawex]

No way were Messi and Maradona too similar, mate. Young Maradona did play more up front but in his prime, he was a classic #10, in the middle of the pitch delivering balls to the strikers at Napoli and Argentina. Prime Messi was on the right with Xavi and Iniesta more in the middle.

But Di Stefano in there probably is too offensive. He dropped back to the middle later in his career but was very much a forward. Ronaldinho, Riquelme, or Zico could fit in there.

And Cruyff was definitely a winger or withdrawn forward so you can definitely include him there. Every highlight I've seen of him, he's coming up the sides or playing through the middle. But he's not at the very top like a Henry or Van Basten (who I'd put ahead of Henry, btw).

A forward line of Cruyff-Henry-Ronaldo would be absolutely brutal.

In that case Kaka would drop out but still you have to consider the fact i went with 4-3-3 and we havent discussed who the manager would be. In 433, there is no classical nr 10 like there was in 80's. Besides when maklng best ever team Europe or SA, you cant avoid dropping some really great players. If Maradona plays as nr 10 or midfielder, no room for Kaka, Zico, Socrates etc.

Looking at transfermarkt, Cruyff played as am, forward or even cm. So if we put him in am or second striker (how young Griezmann or L. Martinez). So in order to get best of him, use 4-4-2 or drop Zidane (which i am not doing). Just like with SA, you have to drop some great players no matter what.

But man 10 games with these teams (dropped players on the bench), man that would be something else.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

In that case Kaka would drop out but still you have to consider the fact i went with 4-3-3 and we havent discussed who the manager would be. In 433, there is no classical nr 10 like there was in 80's. Besides when maklng best ever team Europe or SA, you cant avoid dropping some really great players. If Maradona plays as nr 10 or midfielder, no room for Kaka, Zico, Socrates etc.

Looking at transfermarkt, Cruyff played as am, forward or even cm. So if we put him in am or second striker (how young Griezmann or L. Martinez). So in order to get best of him, use 4-4-2 or drop Zidane (which i am not doing). Just like with SA, you have to drop some great players no matter what.

But man 10 games with these teams (dropped players on the bench), man that would be something else.

Yeah, you're always gonna run into the problem of functionality vs potential in these kinds of scenarios. You always make teams too offensive.

Personally, I'd drop absolutely anyone and anything in order to keep Messi-Maradona-Pele on the field for SA. For Europe, Cruyff and Ronaldo are unquestionable.

 

[codfather]

In terms of producing all-time great individual players, in the modern era, the Americas has been well behind Europe, Brazil has completely carried.

Most populous countries in the Americas and players born in each country who finished top 5 in the Ballon d'Or since 1995 (the year it opened to all players at European clubs):

USA - 0
Brazil - 9 - Vini, Neymar, Jorginho, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Deco, R9, Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo
Mexico - 0
Colombia - 1 - Falcao
Argentina - 2 - Messi, Batigol
Canada - 0
Peru - 0
Venezuela - 0
Chile - 0
Guatemala - 0
Ecuador - 0

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Whoa, no Cruyff, Maradona or Pele is mighty bold! I'm assuming you're only including the ones you've seen yourself.

I'm a big history nerd so I like to include all the old timers (not super old though, WWII-present)



---------------Buffon
Lahm--Baresi--Beckenbauer--Maldini
--------------Rijkaard
Platini---------------Cruyff
Best-----Puskas---Ronaldo



-----------------Chilavert
Cafu--Passarella--Figueroa--Roberto Carlos
-------------------Redondo
Maradona---------------Di Stefano
Messi--------Ronaldo----Pele

Iol this would make for a high scoring game. It's hard to overlook certain players though.

I think I'd have Xavi way over Rijkaard though.

Could debate Yashin over Buffon but not that much footage available.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

In terms of a best of 7 series I dunno. The south Americans have the better attacking players but the euros have way better defensive players and it's not like the attackers are garbage.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think if I want to beat SA as a Euro team I'm setting up like this.

------------------------Buffon-----------------------------
----Ramos-------Beckenbauer---Maldini
---------------Kante--------Xavi------------------------
----Iniesta--------Zidane--------Cruyff
--------------MVB---------Ronaldo---------------

Bench - Yashin, Thuram, Busquets, Pirlo, Baresi, Scirea, Charlton, Eusebio, Platini, Puskas, Makelele, Bale, Modric

Kind of emphasis on keeping the ball, with some pace and athleticism either side of defence and clinical dudes at the top.

 

[Rawex]

I think if I want to beat SA as a Euro team I'm setting up like this.

------------------------Buffon-----------------------------
----Ramos-------Beckenbauer---Maldini
---------------Kante--------Xavi------------------------
----Iniesta--------Zidane--------Cruyff
--------------MVB---------Ronaldo---------------

Bench - Yashin, Thuram, Busquets, Pirlo, Baresi, Scirea, Charlton, Eusebio, Platini, Puskas, Makelele, Bale, Modric

Kind of emphasis on keeping the ball, with some pace and athleticism either side of defence and clinical dudes at the top.

Love Kante but over Busquets, Makelele or Pirlo? Idk

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Love Kante but over Busquets, Makelele or Pirlo? Idk

Busquets and Makelele were my other considerations, I'm kinda looking for a pure ball winner with an endless gas tank and I think Kante provides that.

Love Pirlo but I think him and Xavi is an either or, I don't think you could play them together against an SA team as neither of them are going to cover insane amounts of ground and win the ball back.

 

[Rawex]

Busquets and Makelele were my other considerations, I'm kinda looking for a pure ball winner with an endless gas tank and I think Kante provides that.

Love Pirlo but I think him and Xavi is an either or, I don't think you could play them together against an SA team as neither of them are going to cover insane amounts of ground and win the ball back.

But if you want to put emphasis on keeping the ball cant get better nr 6 for that than Busi.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Europe has won TWO more world cups.

Seems to me, that South Americans are just better at soccer.

This might actually be the real Trump

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

In terms of producing all-time great individual players, in the modern era, the Americas has been well behind Europe, Brazil has completely carried.

Most populous countries in the Americas and players born in each country who finished top 5 in the Ballon d'Or since 1995 (the year it opened to all players at European clubs):

USA - 0
Brazil - 9 - Vini, Neymar, Jorginho, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Deco, R9, Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo
Mexico - 0
Colombia - 1 - Falcao
Argentina - 2 - Messi, Batigol
Canada - 0
Peru - 0
Venezuela - 0
Chile - 0
Guatemala - 0
Ecuador - 0

Didn't Zidane like single-handedly embarrass like half those Brazilians?

 

[Rawex]

Didn't Zidane like single-handedly embarrass like half those Brazilians?

Besides from that list, Deco while he was born in Brazil played for Portugal and Jorginho played for Italy. Not that it matters, Deco or Jorginho with all due respect are not making top 10 all time team Brazil (alone whole SA).

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Iol this would make for a high scoring game. It's hard to overlook certain players though.

I think I'd have Xavi way over Rijkaard though.

Could debate Yashin over Buffon but not that much footage available.

I think goalkeeper is the one position that has truly evolved over the years and where the modern ones are way better than the older ones. You look at footage from as late as the 70s and the goalies vastly inferior.

Xavi is definitely a better passer but I think you need a big, physical presence to deal with that brutal Messi-Maradona-Pele line.

Looking around for box to box midfielders to make teams functional, I was reminded of Falcao. This dude was a beast and is considered the 2nd greatest player in Roma's history only after Totti

@Rawex




In a 4-2-3-1, I'd have him next to the more defensive Redondo

------Redondo--Falcao
Messi--Maradona--Pele
-----------Ronaldo

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think goalkeeper is the one position that has truly evolved over the years and where the modern ones are way better than the older ones. You look at footage from as late as the 70s and the goalies vastly inferior.

Xavi is definitely a better passer but I think you need a big, physical presence to deal with that brutal Messi-Maradona-Pele line.

Looking around for box to box midfielders to make teams functional, I was reminded of Falcao. This dude was a beast and is considered the 2nd greatest player in Roma's history only after Totti

@Rawex




In a 4-2-3-1, I'd have him next to the more defensive Redondo

------Redondo--Falcao
Messi--Maradona--Pele
-----------Ronaldo

Yeah, Yashin's rep was that he was absolutely head and shoulders above any other keeper though, but not much footage so hard to say.

Xavi I agree you need a ball winner with, that's why I'd play him with a Kante or a Makelele or maybe his mate Busquets.

Maybe even a Roy Keane or a Patrick Vieira if you want someone who also offers something going forward (Keane probably gets sent off in this game though).

 

[Possum Jenkins]

But if you want to put emphasis on keeping the ball cant get better nr 6 for that than Busi.

I still can't decide whether Busquets is one of the GOAT defensive mids, or just a pretty good one that thrived in the Barcelona/Spain system.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Yeah, Yashin's rep was that he was absolutely head and shoulders above any other keeper though, but not much footage so hard to say.

Xavi I agree you need a ball winner with, that's why I'd play him with a Kante or a Makelele or maybe his mate Busquets.

Maybe even a Roy Keane or a Patrick Vieira if you want someone who also offers something going forward (Keane probably gets sent off in this game though).

Gotcha, and I agree.

Speaking of Vieira, Rijkaard was like an 80s Vieira. Big, physical, but also good going forward.



He'd also be worth 100m today

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Gotcha, and I agree.

Speaking of Vieira, Rijkaard was like an 80s Vieira. Big, physical, but also good going forward.



He'd also be worth 100m today

Yeah that Dutch team would have had a few players worth a few bob nowadays with him, Gullit, Koeman and MVB.

 

[Rawex]

I think goalkeeper is the one position that has truly evolved over the years and where the modern ones are way better than the older ones. You look at footage from as late as the 70s and the goalies vastly inferior.

Xavi is definitely a better passer but I think you need a big, physical presence to deal with that brutal Messi-Maradona-Pele line.

Looking around for box to box midfielders to make teams functional, I was reminded of Falcao. This dude was a beast and is considered the 2nd greatest player in Roma's history only after Totti

@Rawex




In a 4-2-3-1, I'd have him next to the more defensive Redondo

------Redondo--Falcao
Messi--Maradona--Pele
-----------Ronaldo

Good shout, struggled abit with nr 8 for SA. Kaka, Socrates or Maradona are all a nr 10.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Good shout, struggled abit with nr 8 for SA. Kaka, Socrates or Maradona are all a nr 10.

Unreal that 1982 Brazil's midfield had Zico, Falcao, Socrates, and Toninho Cerezo (another beast) all in their primes.

 

[Rawex]

I still can't decide whether Busquets is one of the GOAT defensive mids, or just a pretty good one that thrived in the Barcelona/Spain system.

Obviously he benefitted from the Barcelona/Spain system but if we dont count Messi, he was more important to Barca's success than Iniesta, Xavi, Neymar, Suarez, Puyol, Pique, Alba or Alves were. Could think of many players to replace these guys and Barca still does just as good, Busi not these case (Makelele or Redondo close yes but Busi is better).