some questions about IBJJF legality of some techniques

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by davidecibel, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. davidecibel

    davidecibel White Belt

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    yo guys, I have trained in BJJ since june (had to stop between mid august and november though :(), and did about 6 months of submission wrestling before that.

    I have some questions about the legality of certain stuff under IBJFF gi rules.

    1) If someone pulls guard without ANY grip, basically by sitting in front of his opponent (not even "jumping" in DLR or sth like that, just sitting), are any points/advantages/penalties awarded? Can the standing guy just stand back and force the sitting guy to stand up?

    1b) What if in a scenario similar to the 1), but one pulls guard with only a sleeve grip, and the other guy breaks the grip right after the guard pull, and just stands there. Any points/adv. etc.?

    2) When doing an armbar from the mount, can I push the face of the other guy on the mat with my hand? (I've been taught to do it this way at submission wrestling, but now that I moved to another city some guys in this BJJ gym are telling me that it's illegal this way because I put my hand a little bit over their eye)
     
  2. Sub Dude

    Sub Dude Blue Belt

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    If someone sits to guard without making any grip it is a penalty. The referee should direct the competitor to stand back up, and the opponent has no obligation to engage in the position. The rule is that they must have a grip (any type of grip...sleeve grip is fine) AND maintain the grip all the way to the ground. If they have a sleeve grip only and sit all the way to the guard while maintaining that grip, they have now legally established a guard position. The opponent must now engage in the guard. If the opponent backs out (taking more than one step backwards) that is also a penalty. They can take indefinite side steps but only one step backward. If they take a step back and the bottom player scoots forward following and they then take another step back, this is not a penalty (as they technically took only one step back, bottom player re-engaged, took one more step back, etc. If the guy is attempting to back out of your guard as the bottom player, stay put & let them take the penalty)....if the bottom player immediately stands up, there is no penalty for the top player for disengaging, as they have now accepted the standing position.

    As far as pushing the face, it is ok to frame with the palm of the hand to the side of the face, but you can't apply any direct pressure into the eyes, nose, cover the mouth, etc. so you have to be somewhat careful with it.
     
  3. davidecibel

    davidecibel White Belt

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    thanks a lot Sub Dude, that answered my question!

    One more thing that I forgot to ask: the other day I was rolling with a MASSIVE guy, who always went for my neck (he's probably not too good as he totally had my arms a couple times and i thought "shit he's gonna kimura me now", but he didn't....) with brute force....

    Once I tapped when he was doing what I think was an ezekiel choke (from the mount), because with the arm that was in the front part of my neck, well, he was pratically crushing my trachea with his closed fist. Is that legal and the proper way to do an ezekiel choke? It felt pretty different from a triangle where my neck is squeezed from the sides...
     
  4. KarateFist

    KarateFist Purple Belt

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    pressure on your throat is legal
     
  5. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    You can do Ezekiel in two ways: one you crush the wind pipe. One you do a blood choke by grabbing your other wrist and/or applying pressure on the artery instead if windpipe. At a higher level, most people would not tap to a windpipe crush.
     
  6. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    No one gets penalized for pulling guard without a grip. I have seen it done a thousand times and it never gets called.
     
  7. SunnyDee

    SunnyDee White Belt

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    In nogi you can pull guard without a grip. But in the gi you must establish a grip first.
     
  8. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    for the record, IBJJF has the same rules for Gi and No-gi. You need a grip before pulling guard.
     
  9. SunnyDee

    SunnyDee White Belt

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    I wasn't aware of that. It makes sense, but you see so many guys immediately playing the seated guard. In nogi I think grips could be consider a little bit more subjective. Simply touching someone's wrist could be considered a grip.

    On a side note, I competed this weekend and for the first time actually stood and did some grip fighting in the beginning and I was much more comfortable with it than I had imagined I would be. So maybe my days of sitting at tournaments could be limited haha
     
  10. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    yes, grabbing the wrist is a grip.
     
  11. SunnyDee

    SunnyDee White Belt

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    Yes, grabbing the wrist is a grip. That's not debatable. That's why I said maybe simply touching the wrist could be considered a grip and may be where my confusion on the rules stemmed from. Also, I often compete under non-IBJJF rules, so that could have something to do with it as well. I don't always keep track in my head which is which :)
     
  12. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    in my last tournament the guy i went up against in the final got a pentalty for touching his knee to the mat for half of a second.
    even i was like wtf?
     
  13. SunnyDee

    SunnyDee White Belt

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    What tournament??? I just did the Charles Gracie invitational this weekend!
     
  14. Hillary

    Hillary Brown Belt

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    People were taking knees, allowing them to slide under and TD attempt with a guard pass without risking points. Instead of arbitrarily making it "knee on ground for more than X seconds," they just decided competitors can only have hands and feet on the mat unless performing a takedown motion. Many rules-savvy black belts will do essentially a double leg kata toward their opponent, knowing they won't get it, and slide to the guard upon any sprawl or reaction.
     
  15. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    nice, how'd you do?. I was supposed to compete but Ill be having surgery soon. my ream was there though.
     
  16. jclaudevandamme

    jclaudevandamme Blue Belt

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    Dude try to jump guard on me and I defend by preventing him of closing the guard and he falls on the ground:

    is is a takedown and I get the 2 points?
     
  17. SunnyDee

    SunnyDee White Belt

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    Not by best showing! haha But it was a learning experience. Lost by points in my first match and lost a ref's decision in my second match. But I have to the videos and I have parts of my game to work on! :)
     
  18. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    You get two points if you grab his pants before he jumps guard.
     
  19. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    yeah Refs D sucks. ive only had 1 refs decision and I lost it to Nickl Greene at the All Star in Santa Cruz
     
  20. SunnyDee

    SunnyDee White Belt

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    I've competed against Nick! He is a BEAST and a great guy too! He's super nice!
     

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