Some kinda "sociological" question on how Europeans and US people understand "charisma".

Rubios said:
Excuse the broken English. 3rd language. Still a bit tricky. Fixed, I hope.
Click to expand...
Consensus and consensual have different usages although they're very similar in meaning. While it could be used this way, consensual is usually used in relation to an activity and consensus is normally used in relation to a thought or idea.
 
Captain Herb said:
Consensus and consensual have different usages although they're very similar in meaning. While it could be used this way, consensual is usually used in relation to an activity and consensus is normally used in relation to a thought or idea.
Click to expand...
Consensual means with permission. Giving consent. Like cookies on wesbites. What a innocent name for spying - cookies. Want cookies ? Yes. Want me to spy on you ? No. Ok than it'll be cookies.


Consensus means everyone agrees or enough for it to be considered the primary opinion aka legit.
 
Aurelian said:
Jokic, charismatic?

{<jordan}
Click to expand...

This validates my "hypothesis".
Yes. Besides being likeable as a humble, down-to-Earth dude...
...he strikes most of us as an extremely funny and intelligent guy who can be as cold as Butler i.e. while remaining classy.

(Butler as an example of a dude with charisma to spare).
 
Rubios said:
I follow two US-centered sports: MMA (just UFC for the most part) and NBA.

And I've seen a pattern for quite some time. Obviously I'm oversimplifying and generalizing for the sake of the discussion:

Talking about the persona and not the fighter, here in Spain* the almost consensual favorite current fighters are -no particular order, not naming them all- Volk, DP, Max, Jiri, Islam. DDP if you fancy some swag.

On the other hand, Conor (not the crackhead, but since the Aldo days), Khamzat or Adesanya (just to name three of the clearest examples) are and were -generally- viewed as ridiculous morons trying too hard.

*Obviously the official media and the "content creators" (stupid neologisms) making a living of it are nuthugging Topuria big time.
The others, including most lower profile content creators, agree on Ilia being the best thing happening to MMA since... Pereira, but 10 years younger.
But find his antics unsufferable.


Same way here (and we couldn't care less about one guy being Greek and the other two Slavic) we use to agree on Jokic, Giannis and Luka -no particular order- being the most charismatic players in the League.

Without resorting to individual N=1 opinions, but rather the tendency you detect, do you believe this cultural discrepancy does in fact exist?
Click to expand...
If that helps you, when the Dream Team came to Barcelona for the 1992 Olympics, the entire country of Spain melted for Michael Jordan like a lemon ice cream on a hot Alicante afternoon. On the other hand, you guys hated Charles Barkley.
 
Rubios said:
I follow two US-centered sports: MMA (just UFC for the most part) and NBA.

And I've seen a pattern for quite some time. Obviously I'm oversimplifying and generalizing for the sake of the discussion:

Talking about the persona and not the fighter, here in Spain* the almost consensual favorite current fighters are -no particular order, not naming them all- Volk, DP, Max, Jiri, Islam. DDP if you fancy some swag.

On the other hand, Conor (not the crackhead, but since the Aldo days), Khamzat or Adesanya (just to name three of the clearest examples) are and were -generally- viewed as ridiculous morons trying too hard.

*Obviously the official media and the "content creators" (stupid neologisms) making a living of it are nuthugging Topuria big time.
The others, including most lower profile content creators, agree on Ilia being the best thing happening to MMA since... Pereira, but 10 years younger.
But find his antics unsufferable.


Same way here (and we couldn't care less about one guy being Greek and the other two Slavic) we use to agree on Jokic, Giannis and Luka -no particular order- being the most charismatic players in the League.

Without resorting to individual N=1 opinions, but rather the tendency you detect, do you believe this cultural discrepancy does in fact exist?
Click to expand...
Just remembered something else that may answer your question. There was a study done a few years ago about which type of leadership people follow in business in different countries. A brief summary in general terms:

Germans preferred fact-based, no fluff, strong leaders who can take charge.

Italians wanted more flash and pizzazz.

Spaniards liked more low-key leaders who appear friendly.

Americans liked ambitious types who want to take charge and are convincing narrators.

Japanese liked self-effacing types who seek to build consensus.

That’s about all I remember, but you can see the point. Culture dictates who most people in a country will be drawn to.
 
Trabaho said:
Consensual means with permission. Giving consent. Like cookies on wesbites. What a innocent name for spying - cookies. Want cookies ? Yes. Want me to spy on you ? No. Ok than it'll be cookies.


Consensus means everyone agrees or enough for it to be considered the primary opinion aka legit.
Click to expand...
The part about the cookies had me in stitches 🤣 and it’s so true…what an innocent name for a spying device!!
 
Charisma is intangible and goes across cultures. Someone with genuine charisma can talk without words and convince people of ideas that were completely foreign to them with little explanation - they just believe because of who is saying it.
 
I'm not sure you understand consensual or consensus. How did you poll these spaniards?
 
I have no familiarity with Spain, but I believe it, because it happens with other places. Different cultures value and respect different values, and judge the same values by different metrics. Some cultures value humility a lot. Some value individualism a lot, ahead of being considerate of others.

Eg back in the 90s in China studies showed "shyness" was viewed positively, and associated with being a leader and being successful. Whereas in the US or Canada it was viewed negatively. By the modern era it's also come to be viewed more negatively in China, as their economy and culture have shifted. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0092656621000568 "in this context social restraint is highly valued, and shy, quiet, and modest behaviors are perceived as socially mature. Indeed, results from a series of studies in the 1990s indicated that shy, anxious, and sensitive behavior in China was found to be adaptive and associated with positive outcomes, including positive peer relationships, school competence, and psychological well-being (e.g., Chen et al., 1997, Chen et al., 1995). For example, Chen, Rubin, and Sun (1992) reported that shyness was positively associated with sociability-leadership and peer acceptance in a sample of Chinese elementary school children."
 
Let me Americansplain this to you, if you can keep up. We’re the greatest superpower that the world has ever known, with the biggest economy and the most lethal military. Our larger states, like California and Texas (just 2/50) have larger GDPs than many individual countries and rank in the top ten of the world by themselves.

Think about that; Texas has a bigger GDP than Russia and Canada 😂

I digress. Why does this matter? It speaks to American values and what character traits resonate with us. Risk. A guy who talks shit and puts it all on the line for greatness. Now that’s interesting. We like high stakes. How do you think we got here?

I don’t care for the whole thrust of the OP. As if, Americans are lesser beings intellectually because we like to be entertained. We’ve earned the right. Cleansed the world of evil and continue to do so, even if only by proxy. Let these Europeans and Russians dance for us now. We’re the biggest market. We buy the PPVs. We decide.
 
Last edited:
Rubios said:
I follow two US-centered sports: MMA (just UFC for the most part) and NBA.

And I've seen a pattern for quite some time. Obviously I'm oversimplifying and generalizing for the sake of the discussion:

Talking about the persona and not the fighter, here in Spain* the almost consensual favorite current fighters are -no particular order, not naming them all- Volk, DP, Max, Jiri, Islam. DDP if you fancy some swag.

On the other hand, Conor (not the crackhead, but since the Aldo days), Khamzat or Adesanya (just to name three of the clearest examples) are and were -generally- viewed as ridiculous morons trying too hard.

*Obviously the official media and the "content creators" (stupid neologisms) making a living of it are nuthugging Topuria big time.
The others, including most lower profile content creators, agree on Ilia being the best thing happening to MMA since... Pereira, but 10 years younger.
But find his antics unsufferable.


Same way here (and we couldn't care less about one guy being Greek and the other two Slavic) we use to agree on Jokic, Giannis and Luka -no particular order- being the most charismatic players in the League.

Without resorting to individual N=1 opinions, but rather the tendency you detect, do you believe this cultural discrepancy does in fact exist?
Click to expand...

Yes but I wouldn't call it charisma per se. Charisma refers to the ability to influence others.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,280,421
Messages
58,281,796
Members
175,993
Latest member
marburg-virus

Share this page

Back
Top