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These NFL types may be explosive but they gas themselves walking to the cage. Bum level cardio.
So much for the " A-Level " athlete...
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Athleticism is just one component.
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Lol yeah Mitrione forgot about that elite athlete.
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Explosiveness alone won't make anyone champ, but having speed/power helps with the curve. Schaub and Mitrione did well for themselves starting late and being good athletes. It won't make them better than prime Fedor, but made them better than Gonzaga, who's good.
I mean this argument is a giant red herring among other logical fallacies.
One former NFL player not having high level success doesn't prove NFL players couldn't have high level success if they dedicated themselves to this sport.
TS, are you arguing that being physically gifted is not an advantage in the sport? Are you arguing that NFL players on average aren't more physically gifted than the average MMA fighter? Or are you saying that you really believe Greg Hardy being KO'd a bunch means no NFL player is capable of transitioning to MMA and dominating, purely because of their athletic gifts?
If size and athleticism didn't matter we wouldn't have weight classes.
One former NFL player not having high level success doesn't prove NFL players couldn't have high level success if they dedicated themselves to this sport.
TS, are you arguing that being physically gifted is not an advantage in the sport? Are you arguing that NFL players on average aren't more physically gifted than the average MMA fighter? Or are you saying that you really believe Greg Hardy being KO'd a bunch means no NFL player is capable of transitioning to MMA and dominating, purely because of their athletic gifts?
If size and athleticism didn't matter we wouldn't have weight classes.
I think one of the biggest things is commitment. You can be the most athletic person in the world, but if you are not committed you are not going to make it. At the NFL combine there are always freak athletes who shoot up the draft board based on speed, size, strength, etc etc, but flame out in the NFL. Then you have some all time greats like Jerry Rice, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning etc etc who were no the most athletic guys around, but were football players. Hines Ward a WR for the Steelers played w/ no ACL in his left knee. He is a border line HOFer and was one of the most feared blocking WRs in the game.
Here is a good quote from him
"It was nerve-racking," said Ward. "You are amongst all of these prospects. They all have one goal, and that is to make it to the NFL. It was kind of weird for me because I had success in the SEC. Going to the Combine they measure how fast you are, how high you can jump and bench press.
"The one thing they don't measure at the Combine is heart. There are a lot of players that may not test well or be the fastest guy, but there are a lot of football players that have a lot of heart and are great players. I wasn't the biggest, I wasn't the fastest, but I had a passion for football."
"Ironically for me, going there and being tugged on was the first time I found out I didn't have an ACL in my left knee," said Ward. "It was shocking news to me. Here I am, I played sports my entire life and I got to the Combine and I don't have an ACL. I was like good, I can't tear it. They told me it wasn't good. I was a high risk draft choice.
Here is a good quote from him
"It was nerve-racking," said Ward. "You are amongst all of these prospects. They all have one goal, and that is to make it to the NFL. It was kind of weird for me because I had success in the SEC. Going to the Combine they measure how fast you are, how high you can jump and bench press.
"The one thing they don't measure at the Combine is heart. There are a lot of players that may not test well or be the fastest guy, but there are a lot of football players that have a lot of heart and are great players. I wasn't the biggest, I wasn't the fastest, but I had a passion for football."
"Ironically for me, going there and being tugged on was the first time I found out I didn't have an ACL in my left knee," said Ward. "It was shocking news to me. Here I am, I played sports my entire life and I got to the Combine and I don't have an ACL. I was like good, I can't tear it. They told me it wasn't good. I was a high risk draft choice.
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I never heard the 6 months to two years part.
I would think that what they mean by " A-level athlete would become champs" would be if they had the same training.
I can give you an example (you may like it or not), but Brock Lesnar.
Without much training, he became the UFC champion.
Had he started his MMA career after his wrestling career (instead of pro-wrestling) , he could probably have become MMA GOAT
He had plenty of time and the trump card of fabricated A-level athleticism on his side in order to learn how to fight. And he is not 40lbs smaller that Jake Paul ffs <45>
The reality is, A-level athleticism is largely a myth. It’s typically just Americans telling the world their athletes are better than others in a weird self administered ego-massage.
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does greg looks like he has trained a single day in his life?
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Won the HW belt and defended it twice? Not bad for somebody with such relatively little training in the sport.
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you're presenting the new argument.
the old argument was, anyone from the nfl or nba can train a few months or a few years and clear out their division, no problem.
Yeah, athleticism helps but there's way more to it. Also, being able to lift more or sprint fast or jump higher doesn't mean they will be better fighters. on paper, greg hardy should destroy everyone in the ufc hw division.
That's not how it works, that's all.
Imagining scenarios where guys who would have been in the nfl trained mma from a young age is the next step in this argument. So far the guys who actually showed up have gotten put to sleep repeatedly or in Johnnie Morton's case, kod so bad they had to be taken out on a stretcher.
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no,they make more than the champs. this is NOT debatable dude. justin jefferson is a third string wide receiver on the vikings, hes not a superstar but makes 14 million a year. NO
they dont have to show up to be the next jones or McGregor, because they get paid orders of magnitude more being a third string wide receiver. or any other position.
Ohhhh my bad.
I didn't realize we weren't allowed to analyze an argument with logic.
We just have to take your account of it and accept the conclusions.
Gotcha.
Good talk.
Should I bring up that you are factually incorrect about former nfl players success in mma? You know, how there have been a handful that have competed, an incredibly small sample size, and almost all of them have winning records. One KO'd Mirko and one KO'd Fedor. Two pretty good MMA fighters, right?
Oh shit wait.
Fuck.
I forgot.
That's a new argument.
Can't do that.
My bad.
You are correct.
I concede.
Sorry for using logic.
It has no place here.
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A level is just slang for athleticism we associate with attributes that many positions in stick and ball sports possess. Best example are those freak guys who can compete in multiple pro sports at once like Bo Jackson/Deon Sanders. Most of the attention is on stick and ball sports because thats where all the money is and thats what kids mostly compete in, most of the recruitment is and it is statistically the hardest to go professional. Many times combat sports are a fall back option when someone can't make it in other sports(Stipe with baseball, Deontay Wilder with football/basketball, Cyril Gane with soccer/basketball...etc.) If a guy like Ngannou grew up in the U.S. he would be indoctrinated into the American sports system by high school at the latest and would be looking to get a scholarship for a NCAA school and hope to go pro. Rise and repeat... thats the general path for most American athletes. Now that MMA is getting more global we are slowly picking up more of these type of guys who aren't in that system.
Though tough to neatly qualify the term athleticism...it is a thing and Jon Jones being considered one of the best of all time with two NFL brothers means he's coming from a pretty fucking athletic family(I'm sure if Ngannou grew up in the U.S. with brother they would excel in American sports as well). Obviously there is no guarantee on any level how far a NFL guy can go in MMA without any background since there are too many attributes at play since it's not about when you start training MMA since MMA is NOT a martial art, it's a combat sport where you can use various techniques from other martial arts. Training any other martial art prior to competing in MMA is massively important since its called mixed martial arts for a reason(it's why Lesnar captured a world title with little MMA experience). Greg Hardy started very late(even guys like Ngannou/JDS were boxing at a much younger age). Completely stupid comparing the two(also Ngannou is a genetic specimen himself). He only got as far as he did because he was a giant big guy who could move fast but obviously he has shit discipline for MMA and life in general. CM Punk on the other hand is a great example what happens when you take some average dude with no background and you can see all the dedication and money in the world with training doesn't mean shit.
Though tough to neatly qualify the term athleticism...it is a thing and Jon Jones being considered one of the best of all time with two NFL brothers means he's coming from a pretty fucking athletic family(I'm sure if Ngannou grew up in the U.S. with brother they would excel in American sports as well). Obviously there is no guarantee on any level how far a NFL guy can go in MMA without any background since there are too many attributes at play since it's not about when you start training MMA since MMA is NOT a martial art, it's a combat sport where you can use various techniques from other martial arts. Training any other martial art prior to competing in MMA is massively important since its called mixed martial arts for a reason(it's why Lesnar captured a world title with little MMA experience). Greg Hardy started very late(even guys like Ngannou/JDS were boxing at a much younger age). Completely stupid comparing the two(also Ngannou is a genetic specimen himself). He only got as far as he did because he was a giant big guy who could move fast but obviously he has shit discipline for MMA and life in general. CM Punk on the other hand is a great example what happens when you take some average dude with no background and you can see all the dedication and money in the world with training doesn't mean shit.
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yeah they all got knocked out repeatedly also and never won the belt, so what? Hardy is a Pro Bowler and he's getting put to sleep repeatedly.
keep riding a level athlete D
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I would agree with this but you're looking at one side on the coin and I'll just Hardy as an example.
Yes Hardy and other football players gas quick. It's the nature of football when you're constantly going 100% all the time.
But what didn't get highlighted enough is their recovery time. They recover pretty damn quick. We've seen Hardy gas and get 2nd and 3rd winds in the same round. Where you thought Hardy was done but 30 seconds later looks fresh again.
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Isn't Hardy like 2-5 or something
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4-5 in the UFC which is extremely respectable.
We have lifelong fighters that go 0-3 or 1-4 in the UFC get cut.
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Speaking of changing arguments. Nice job continuing to move the goal posts.
Isn't that what you accused me of?
Hmm.
Good talk bro. I'm out.
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