So much for the " A-Level " athlete...

[sherdogwantedtonamemekiki]

They are revising their argument to be, if someone that would have had the athleticism to be an A level athlete trained mma from a young age, they would dominate mma.

This is an impossible scenario for so many reasons.

They used to say any nfl or nba player or even the benchwarmers or even a good D1 college bball or fball player or even an older guy who played at these levels would run through their ufc division with a few months of training, especially at HW

After this has been disproven repeatedly, then they switched the argument to what I posted above.

It's a never ending loop on insanity and retardation!

 

[KhosVaziri]

Ngannou, Cyril, Stipe and Bleydes are all A level athletes... Don't know how anyone can claim otherwise.

Dude, Walt Harris is a phenomenal athlete. Like top tier. I don't know how anyone can watch him fight and say otherwise. And for as good an athlete he was, he never cracked the top 10 as far as I am aware.

yeah but he only played Division II basketball so because he didnt play D1 or was in the NBA, people discount his athletic credentials.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

Ngannou, Cyril, Stipe and Bleydes are all A level athletes... Don't know how anyone can claim otherwise.

Dude, Walt Harris is a phenomenal athlete. Like top tier. I don't know how anyone can watch him fight and say otherwise. And for as good an athlete he was, he never cracked the top 10 as far as I am aware.

Stipe is nowhere close to A Level dude.
The guy is literally 40 years old, and was never neither especially fast nor powerful, he just has these heavy punches a la Chuck and a great chin, on top of being a great combat sport practicionner.
Shane Del Rosario (RiP), who started around the same time, in example, was a much better athlete.
Young DC was A Level.

N'Gannou just has big power and a great chin, and is also kinda quick, not sure he is A Level by league sports standards ( which is what is referred here when people talk about being A Level, basically = would have great combine numbers ) .
But let's definitely class him as A Level for combat sports for sure.

Blaydes LOL... What are you basing this assumption on ?
Gane being A Level is debatable too, he is athletic but has no power and strengthwise got ragdolled by Francis.
Definitely wouldn't cut it in a NFL combine sorry. Good coordination and speed but lacking the strength/power side of natural athlecism imo.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

Amen brother.
And chin isn't the only factor, Lesnar is an A level athlete who had very good chin and a 20 years wrestling back ground + size advantage, but he couldn't take a punch well and turned his back/turtled.
Kinda like Sapp who was a great athlete with great chin too but poor fighting instinct..
Yes Lesnar was UFC champ, but he was given a golden road to it against grappler with no power until Carwin ( who had 3 min gas tank and thought it was a benchpress and size contest ).
He could have been better by starting earlier, of course, but I doubt his mental block to getting hit would have been great. I'm not even sure he could grapple his way to the UFC if he had to climb the ladder.
Or maybe would he be another Cole Konrad.
But athleticism alone will definitely not be enough to achieve anything in combat sports, this isn't sprinting or throwing events.

Like I said abilities to take punches without turning your back, staying in front of your opponent, aggressivness/be willing to hurt him ( Hello Rulon Gardner ), cardio, grittiness, durability... you name it.

1000% agreed, very well said. And Brock did well because he was a great wrestler and had a lot of grappling skill and knowledge. But without that he would not have got very far. But the so called "A Level athletes'' in basketball, NFL, and other sports would have no chance in MMA.

I seen so many people saying on these forums "Give Lebron James 1 year of MMA training and he will be UFC HW champ" LOL.. its so cute, I always have a little giggle to myself. its really cute. If they gave him a lower level UFC HW like Justin Tafa.. James would be laid out quickly, his chin won't hold up in the exchanges, he will just fall over on the floor in an exchange.

Like you said there are so many factors to be a great fighter, you need the talent and skill for it, then you need the fight IQ, the knowledge, heart, durability, the different cardio for it.. but most of all you need the chin .. can you actually take it?. I'm willing to best most of these basketball amazing athletes chins won't hold up after a few shots.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

nelson also kod schaub who did not do as well in football as mitrione but he did ride that a level athlete hype for awhile and had some good wins

And was indeed quite athletic for a big man, I agree.
I just stopped at a few examples because there are many more, but you sir are right!

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

People get caught up in body composition and explosive metrics as the end all be all of "athleticism".

Go look at boxing - best boxer in the world looks like a tub of lard and would hardly be called athletic- Tyson Fury. Now find me a 6'9, near 300lbs man who has his footwork, agility and ability to go 36 minutes of non stop aerobic exercise and come out fine. The list is short to non existent.

Basketball currently is a mix of a few players - but most would tell you it is Nikola Jokic who is the best player. Again, a high bodyfat 7 footer, who doesn't come close to your typical looking A level athlete. Yet amazing footwork, dexterity, hand eye coordination and balance.

People just don't like it when their build of what should be successful, and what they want to be successful isn't necessarily the most top notch build for being the best.

100% correct.
People also forget about the coordination part especially for big athletes.
I bought a pal of mine who is a top 5 discus thrower to some of my boxing lessons back a few years ago, and both I and my boxing teacher were shocked at how uncoordinated he was when out of his specialty domain... It was borderline embarassing, despite obviously being a big guy with great athletcism.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

1000% agreed, very well said. And Brock did well because he was a great wrestler and had a lot of grappling skill and knowledge. But without that he would not have got very far. But the so called "A Level athletes'' in basketball, NFL, and other sports would have no chance in MMA.

I seen so many people saying on these forums "Give Lebron James 1 year of MMA training and he will be UFC HW champ" LOL.. its so cute, I always have a little giggle to myself. its really cute. If they gave him a lower level UFC HW like Justin Tafa.. James would be laid out quickly, his chin won't hold up in the exchanges, he will just fall over on the floor in an exchange.

Like you said there are so many factors to be a great fighter, you need the talent and skill for it, then you need the fight IQ, the knowledge, heart, durability, the different cardio for it.. but most of all you need the chin .. can you actually take it?. I'm willing to best most of these basketball amazing athletes chins won't hold up after a few shots.

LeBron, who is possibly the best athlete of all NBA, or at least was at some point back then, can't even cope with some undersized point guard punches without flopping to the ground.

He is litterally the first guy I think about every time this A Level bullcrap is mentionned...

 

[welldone]

didnt brendan schaub ko crocop with only a ew years of training? didnt lesnar become ufc champ despite being a nfl flunky? lol that inferiority complex towards better athletes strikes again LOL

 

[JSF]

Just like other sports, there is an "ideal" height/weight.

From gymnastics to football to track to swimming to tennis to whatever, it doesn't matter.

Though there will always be outliers, the needs of the sport in terms of physical traits (strength, agility, cardio, flexibility, etc) will always have a certain bell curve

And this bell curve, expectedly, will be different than other sports.

Combat sports are different only in that they have weight classes - this is to allow competition, as without weight classes it's understandable that the bigger fighters would dominate the smaller, generally.

But even with no weight classes, there would be the law of diminishing returns when it comes to size. As several pointed out, the heavier you get, the stronger you may be, but then cardio, agility, flexibility, etc will tend to decline. So at some point you can be too big, just like it is for other sports.


Even though we'll never know, I'd speculate that in an alternate universe, where there were no weight classes, eventually the "best" fighters would be between 185-230, in terms of min/maxing height, reach, strength, KO power, speed, agility, cardio, etc...

For those that seem to hold that (American) Football are then end-all-be-all physically, are blind to the fact that they are ideal build for short bursts only. They literally go full on for 10 seconds, and then rest for 30. And that's what they are built for. I do not believe that it means they would automatically be the best at MMA, had they "do MMA instead of football at young age". I also believe that they would have been built differently had they chose that path.

Football nut huggers forget about that aspect of it.

 

[welldone]

LeBron, who is possibly the best athlete of all NBA, or at least was at some point back then, can't even cope with some undersized point guard punches without flopping to the ground.

He is litterally the first guy I think about every time this A Level bullcrap is mentionned...

yeah he is clearly not doing it on purpose, you being blatanly disingenuous doesn't help your argument.

 

[Fukkup]

Stipe is nowhere close to A Level dude.
The guy is literally 40 years old, and was never neither especially fast nor powerful, he just has these heavy punches a la Chuck and a great chin, on top of being a great combat sport practicionner.
Shane Del Rosario (RiP), who started around the same time, in example, was a much better athlete.
Young DC was A Level.

N'Gannou just has big power and a great chin, and is also kinda quick, not sure he is A Level by league sports standards ( which is what is referred here when people talk about being A Level, basically = would have great combine numbers ) .
But let's definitely class him as A Level for combat sports for sure.

Blaydes LOL... What are you basing this assumption on ?
Gane being A Level is debatable too, he is athletic but has no power and strengthwise got ragdolled by Francis.
Definitely wouldn't cut it in a NFL combine sorry. Good coordination and speed but lacking the strength/power side of natural athlecism imo.

I dont think you're quite grasping this. There is no A level athlete. The NFL combine is a specific set of tests that are designed to give some base level measurements of explosive strength and speed. Its irrelevant to the fight game, and would only be the best measure for athleticism if American Football was the only sport played in the world.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

didnt brendan schaub ko crocop with only a ew years of training? didnt lesnar become ufc champ despite being a nfl flunky? lol that inferiority complex towards better athletes strikes again LOL

And ? Does being a combat sport athlete make you unkoable by some big HW with power ???
And CroCop at the moment he faced Schaub sure was a the peak of his career at 37 years old with over 120 fights...

" NFL flunky " had the same combine numbers as JJ Watts just after a motorcylce accident btw, the problem being he just doesn't know how to play football so stop with this revisionnist crap.
Lesnar not being athletic enough for NFL is just a straight up lie.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

I think people underrate the athleticism of MMA fighters really. The talent pool might not be big but the actual athletic demands of the sport are fairly high and will typically build people with a solid mix of speed, strength, agility and cardio.

Regardless, its not just about raw athleticism, very few sports are. Technique, strategy, heart etc are factors too.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

I dont think you're quite grasping this. There is no A level athlete. The NFL combine is a specific set of tests that are designed to give some base level measurements of explosive strength and speed. Its irrelevant to the fight game, and would only be the best measure for athleticism if American Football was the only sport played in the world.

You are actually the one not grasping it , as what is commonly referred to here on Sherdog as being " A Level " is having good " League sports stats " ( NFL combine to name it, or the BBall equivalent ).
Many people here have been trying to explain the fact that there is no universal " A Level " athlete package that translate to any sport, especially MMA, that requires such a versatile package.
Even if having added speed, power etc can't hurt of course, provided you have all the rest.

What I'm pointing at here is this endless flow of " Said A Level athlete would be UFC champ in two years " threads we have been facing for ages now.

 

[welldone]

And ? Does being a combat sport athlete make you unkoable by some big HW with power ???
And CroCop at the moment he faced Schaub sure was a the peak of his career at 37 years old with over 120 fights...

" NFL flunky " had the same combine numbers as JJ Watts just after a motorcylce accident btw, the problem being he just doesn't know how to play football so stop with this revisionnist crap.
Lesnar not being athletic enough for NFL is just a straight up lie.

how old is greg hardy?

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

I think people underrate the athleticism of MMA fighters really. The talent pool might not be big but the actual athletic demands of the sport are fairly high and will typically build people with a solid mix of speed, strength, agility and cardio.

Regardless, its not just about raw athleticism, very few sports are. Technique, strategy, heart etc are factors too.

Exactly.
And NFL like athlecism doesn't transfer well.
What is the average NFL play ? Less than 10 seconds or in that range...? With massive breaks ratio wise...
How can this transfer to a sport with 5 minutes rounds...???

 

[cheesus]

Greg Hardy just doesn't have great natural fighting talent and doesn't seem like he's really made major improvements, someone like Mitrione got into MMA rather late in his career (I think very late 20's maybe even 30) and he had much better fighting instincts. Hardy is just big, strong & fairly agile for a man 300lb+ but he doesn't have any real tools aside from throwing a big haymakers with no real finesse or setup, his punches are incredibly stiff and labored.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

how old is greg hardy?

And how many fights, training camps and KO's did his body went through compared to Mirko ?


He was 29 when he started fighting, and even younger when he started training. Should already have been UFC champ according to the A-Level athlete batallion.
He is only 33 btw, the decline will just start to be really noticeable from now.
These 5 years are a massive difference maker, in case you didn't know, that's why you can still see some early 30's guys in speed/power sports being medal contenders, but you will almost never see a 37 or 38 years old win a speed/power olympic event despite being massively on PEDs.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

Greg Hardy just doesn't have great natural fighting talent and doesn't seem like he's really made major improvements, someone like Mitrione got into MMA rather late in his career (I think very late 20's maybe even 30) and he had much better fighting instincts. Hardy is just big, strong & fairly agile for a man 300lb+ but he doesn't have any real tools aside from throwing a big haymakers with no real finesse or setup, his punches are incredibly stiff and labored.

Amen
Mitrione and even Schaub had better instincts/evolution fightingwise.

 

[jjresq]

Both Gane and Francis are "A-level" athletes and they both dominate the Hw division. If you're skilled and athletic you're going to be better than fighters that are just as skilled but not as athletic. Also being athletic gives you a steeper learning curve than someone who's not. Greg Hardy has actually done pretty well for someone who is older and has only been training MMA for 5 years with no previous experience in any other martial art. But if we are being honest what triggers people is that Rogan said it's only a matter of time before blacks dominate MMA and we know that doesn't sit well with racist MMA fans.