So did Goddard mess up the Simon fight?

[Phisher]

The bell rang, the fight is over

Refs shouldn’t be able to call a stoppage after the time has expired

Lembo is the executive director of the New Jersey AC, and Jersey is one of the more competent commissions. I'll take his interpretation of the rules over the consensus on Sherdog.




John McCarthy

 

[Congo66]

He was showing the ref he’s not out, he did so with his hands and mouth when he could and got on the imaginary bike when he couldn’t , ref was pulling at his arms trying to figure out if he’s out and he decided he wasn’t

Well he stopped with the hands 5-10s before the end, I'm still not convinced either way.
I don't recall seeing anyone else do that for what was it 30 seconds with their legs and he did keep going when the fight was over as has been mentioned here.

The person who was closest was the ref and he didn't call it so I wouldn't have had a problem if it went to points, before they cut to commercials I assumed that was what was going to happen and then they came back and Simon was sitting on the cage with his arms in the air.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

He stopped riding the bike when the bell sounded, meaning he was conscious of his effort and wanted to show the ref he wasn’t out, he was just about, but wasn’t

We’re entering an era where not getting subbed is getting TKO’d

No, he did not stop riding his bike after the bell sounded. He continued on mechanically through several ore repetitions even after Simon walked away. The ref decided he was out. I think he made a good call.

 

[TeamTanner]

Way too much guessing as to if he was out and exactly when he went out if he did go out.


The only thing that should matter is what the ref decides before the final bell sounds. That would simplify everything.

 

[podsox]

It's not an air choke. He doesn't need air. It's a blood choke. Entirely different thing.

Even in blood choked your cutting off oxygen to the brain. So yes he would

 

[Blazmo]

First, it's not slowed down. Second, it doesn't matter how long he was out. Only that he was.

He wasn't out though. He was clearly just relaxing after going life-and-death and resting his head on the ground. How is that not a natural reaction?

 

[Peteyandjia]

Again, whether he went out, or just relaxed at the end of the bell after nearly getting choked out is very debatable

Btw people come very close to getting knocked out and get saved by the bell all the time, being wonky doesn’t earn them a tko loss

I really don’t see the difference since I don’t believe he was out, for the reasons I previously mentioned

The fact they debated it for what seemed like 45 minutes after , indicates an absolute lack of knowledge

If they thought he was out, they could’ve called that pretty quick

I'm just glad we had professionals like Marc Goddard there, who know what a choked out fighter is, to make sure that the right call was made.

I understand the timing was weird, but that's what happened. He was choked out at the horn.

 

[Blazmo]

I'm just glad we had professionals like Marc Goddard there, who know what a choked out fighter is, to make sure that the right call was made.

I understand the timing was weird, but that's what happened. He was choked out at the horn.

Marc Goddard wasn't happy with the decision either.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

however it went, it isn't hard to imagine that these odd "is he asleep or is he still with it" moments are going to cause a change in the near future. it not terribly tv friendly to have a guy choked out for what may have been 25 seconds.

I'm expecting a rule change where they allow a Mario Yamasaki style stoppage if it's a brutal choke and the guy's defenselessly counting on the clock its a tko. IF the ref thought he was out call it this guy made that fighter suffer 40 seconds of hell THEN took away the scorecards and said tko. We have a new worst ref in mma.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Even in blood choked your cutting off oxygen to the brain. So yes he would

No, it's a lack of bloodflow. No offense, but you don't understand how this works. When someone wakes up from getting a clean blood choke, they don't start taking a bunch of deep breaths as if they had been drowning without air. They just wake up. Like he did.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Marc Goddard wasn't happy with the decision either.

Any comments from him?

EDIT: It appears this guy is full of shit, Goddard said on FS1 that he agrees with the decision.

 

[podsox]

No, it's a lack of bloodflow. No offense, but you don't understand how this works. When someone wakes up from getting a clean blood choke, they don't start taking a bunch of deep breaths as if they had been drowning without air. They just wake up. Like he did.

Im saying he never went out

 

[TeamTanner]

I'm just glad we had professionals like Marc Goddard there, who know what a choked out fighter is, to make sure that the right call was made.

I understand the timing was weird, but that's what happened. He was choked out at the horn.

At the horn means what? It couldn't have happened at the exact same time the horn sounded if you want to break it down into milliseconds so did it happen before the bell or after? And Simon didn't even release the choke exactly when the horn sounded so what if the extra second he held the choke after the bell sounded is what made him go out? I don't think anyone even knows that's why it's a bad call.

 

[Timurd123]

No, he did not stop riding his bike after the bell sounded. He continued on mechanically through several ore repetitions even after Simon walked away. The ref decided he was out. I think he made a good call.

That’s not what I saw in the live replays and the gifs in this thread, but i’ll Look at it tmr

 

[Gambit MMA]

The ref makes that judgment, not us. Looked to me like he faded in and out.

Yeah, after the bell rang. Theirs a time limit for a reason. His window to stop it was the last 10 seconds when the guy stopped moving his 1 arm. He didn’t stop it, should have went to the cards

 

[Peteyandjia]

At the horn means what? It couldn't have happened at the exact same time the horn sounded if you want to break it down into milliseconds so did it happen before the bell or after? Simon didn't release the choke exactly when the horn sounded. I don't think anyone even knows.

At the horn means when the horn sounded, and yeah he let go of the choke immediately. And the guy was out. You aren't the winner in that case, any more than you would be the winner if a fighter knocked you out at the horn.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Yeah, after the bell rang. Theirs a time limit for a reason. His window to stop it was the last 10 seconds when the guy stopped moving his 1 arm. He didn’t stop it, should have went to the cards

You don't get to go to the cards if you are unconscious when the ref breaks you up at the horn.

 

[Timurd123]

I'm just glad we had professionals like Marc Goddard there, who know what a choked out fighter is, to make sure that the right call was made.

I understand the timing was weird, but that's what happened. He was choked out at the horn.

I still disagree
The horn ends the fight, fighters need to finish within the 15/25 minutes

It’s like getting a dr stoppage after the last bell to me

There’s in between round procedures, during round procedures and the final bell signals the end of the fight and the scorecards being needed

Basically the ref, and others in here are saying “well he was out at the end” while I’m saying it doesn’t matter, final bell = scorecards

You cannot wave a fight over after the final bell, that’s probably in the rule book somewhere hehe

 

[Timurd123]

At the horn means when the horn sounded, and yeah he let go of the choke pretty quickly. And the guy was out. You aren't the winner in that case, any more than you would be the winner if a fighter knocked you out at the horn.

If the ref didn’t wave it off, it’s not a knock out and not a submission, it’s up to the ref to know when a fighter is out, if he didn’t call it during the fight then he didn’t think the fighter was out
After the fact is senseless

 

[Peteyandjia]

I still disagree
The horn ends the fight, fighters need to finish within the 15/25 minutes

It’s like getting a dr stoppage after the last bell to me

There’s in between round procedures, during round procedures and the final bell signals the end of the fight and the scorecards being needed

Basically the ref, and others in here are saying “well he was out at the end” while I’m saying it doesn’t matter, final bell = scorecards

You cannot wave a fight over after the final bell, that’s probably in the rule book somewhere hehe

Again, a fighter has to be conscious when the ref stops the fight, otherwise he loses.