Snatch Help!!!

[BobVulture]

I've been following the glenn pendlay beginner program for around 3-4 months and, while I've been making good progress, I've been stuck at a 190lb snatch for almost a month now. At the time that I hit 190 I was struggling to consistently hit anything over 170lb's. I'm now currently able to consistently hit 181 and 184 without missing, but still can't for the life of me get past 190. So I'm really looking for any tips on what I'm doing wrong and what I can do to finally get past this; improve upper back strength? Improve flexibility? etc.. Here's a video of what basically every miss at anything over 190 looks like.



My other lifts for reference are
Back Squat- 300-306
Front Squat- 271
Clean- 245
Clean and Jerk- 230

 

[dsdoubled]

It doesnt look like your flexibility is an issue here. There are other people who can probably point out some minor errors in your technique but to me it looks good. Id say the issue is simply that you have made some good gains and are getting to a point where your going to have to really fight to get to another level. 2 things I would try if it was me:
-Lighten the load a little and really work the explosion (rather than concentrating on technique). Get your mind into it and think explode explode explode.

-the other thing that makes sense is to break the snatch down and work each phase of the move on its own. Meaning Work your deadlift really hard. Work your high pull. Work your standing OHP. Work your overhead squat. Id also addin some good lower trap/mid trap/external rotator work with some band face pulls. It only makes sense that if you get stronger on these your snatch will really improve.

 

[JauntyAngle]

Meaning Work your deadlift really hard. Work your high pull. Work your standing OHP.

This sounds a bit weird to me.

As I understand it, deadlifting is different from the first pull in an Oly lift. I also thought that there is no pressing involved in a correctly performed snatch (or jerk), and that Oly lifters really don't focus on pressing that often. I haven't heard of OHS being used to build the Oly lifts either, more as something developmental (but I could just not be exposed to enough Oly.)

Always happy to be corrected, if you are are an Oly coach or a Oly lifter with big numbers, please do hit me with some knowledge.

TS- I can't comment on your technique, but maybe you need to move on to intermediate programming. Maybe hit up Jake? Or get over to the Sweatpit or Pendlay forums?

 

[dsdoubled]

This sounds a bit weird to me.

As I understand it, deadlifting is different from the first pull in an Oly lift. I also thought that there is no pressing involved in a correctly performed snatch (or jerk), and that Oly lifters really don't focus on pressing that often. I haven't heard of OHS being used to build the Oly lifts either, more as something developmental (but I could just not be exposed to enough Oly.)

Always happy to be corrected, if you are are an Oly coach or a Oly lifter with big numbers, please do hit me with some knowledge.

TS- I can't comment on your technique, but maybe you need to move on to intermediate programming. Maybe hit up Jake? Or get over to the Sweatpit or Pendlay forums?

No im not an advanced strength coach specializing in the olympic lifts or anything like that. I wouldnt recommend that the TS do just these lifts and hope to improve his snatch. But paired with the 1st pointer, lightening up his working weight and really concentrating on improving his explosion/power, I think he can. As for the lifts (deadlift, high pull, OHP, OHS face pull, etc). I know they are not exact replicas of each phase of the snatch, but I believe there will be more than enough carry over to get the TS to his goal. I really do. The deadlift to get out of the hole, strengthen the grip, the traps--the high pull to hit the shoulders, traps again-- The OHP and the OHS, aside from the obvious muscles they strengthen, I feel they will really help the TS improve the stability of his shoulder girdle which, based on the video, looked like where he was failing.

 

[elevate]

It's hard to tell from this angle, but it looks like your grip is really narrow for a snatch. If I didn't read your introduction, I would have thought you were going for a clean. From my quick look at things, it looks like this is impacting your ability to get the bar in the proper position overhead and your ability to pull under smoothly.

 

[dsdoubled]

It's hard to tell from this angle, but it looks like your grip is really narrow for a snatch. If I didn't read your introduction, I would have thought you were going for a clean. From my quick look at things, it looks like this is impacting your ability to get the bar in the proper position overhead and your ability to pull under smoothly.

Should his hands be all the way to the point where hes touching the plates? I get that the wider the grip the shorter the ROM which is good for competition. How wide is too wide though?

 

[MandirigmaFit]

Be a little more aggressive with your arms. Lock out before you receive at the bottom of the OHS.

Do you not like changing feet position when pulling and receiving?

As far as hand placement, the bar should be at the crease of the hip, when hanging.

 

[elevate]

Yes, bar should be at the crease of the hip.

But it's also amazing what even a finger width adjustment can do for overhead positioning while still keeping the bar in the same hip range. I had to play with my hand placement a bit to find what felt best for me, protected my shoulders, and allowed me to pull smoothly.

edit: Watching it a few more times, you also need to get your chest up more on the pull. You're getting pulled forward and fighting to keep proper positions.

 

[Eric Brown]

-the other thing that makes sense is to break the snatch down and work each phase of the move on its own. Meaning Work your deadlift really hard. Work your high pull. Work your standing OHP. Work your overhead squat. Id also addin some good lower trap/mid trap/external rotator work with some band face pulls. It only makes sense that if you get stronger on these your snatch will really improve.

Ignore everything this idiot said. Yours is not a strength issue, it is a speed, technique and timing issue, and speed will improve the timing issue.

Your arms are bending a hair too early. This would not be that big of a deal, but your pull under is a little slow so this leaves the bar out in front of you slightly. Combined with your lack of speed getting your feet and hips into position to receive the bar and you have no chance to make the lift.

Following corrections:

Slightly wider grip.
Maintain the high chest position throughout the pull. This includes the pull under.
You need to be a bit faster once you start your second pull. But you need speed work for this, not slow, grinding reps. In addition to more repetitions of the snatch with lighter weights, extra work with snatches from the hang and drop snatches can go a long ways towards improves your speed under the bar.

Deadlifts, pressing and overhead squats will do somewhere between shit and fuck-all towards correcting your issues.

 

[dsdoubled]

Ignore everything this idiot said. Yours is not a strength issue, it is a speed, technique and timing issue, and speed will improve the timing issue.

Your arms are bending a hair too early. This would not be that big of a deal, but your pull under is a little slow so this leaves the bar out in front of you slightly. Combined with your lack of speed getting your feet and hips into position to receive the bar and you have no chance to make the lift.

Following corrections:

Slightly wider grip.
Maintain the high chest position throughout the pull. This includes the pull under.
You need to be a bit faster once you start your second pull. But you need speed work for this, not slow, grinding reps. In addition to more repetitions of the snatch with lighter weights, extra work with snatches from the hang and drop snatches can go a long ways towards improves your speed under the bar.

Deadlifts, pressing and overhead squats will do somewhere between shit and fuck-all towards correcting your issues.

Funny how you say"ignore everything this idiot says" and than you go on to recommend 2 of the very same things I touched on in this thread. I could see this kind of response from you last time with that highly questionable lifting rx I offered, but this time your just showing what a sad litle punk you are. Your really holding an internet grudge against me and discounting any/everything I have to offer on a public forum? Why? BC I dared to challenge your almighty authority on the subject. Such a weak weak move on your part buddy.

 

[dsdoubled]

Yes, bar should be at the crease of the hip.

But it's also amazing what even a finger width adjustment can do for overhead positioning while still keeping the bar in the same hip range. I had to play with my hand placement a bit to find what felt best for me, protected my shoulders, and allowed me to pull smoothly.

edit: Watching it a few more times, you also need to get your chest up more on the pull. You're getting pulled forward and fighting to keep proper positions.

As someone who has struggled quite a bit in the past with a few nasty shoulder injuries, I was actually amazed at how much improvement I got once I started doing the olympic lifts semi regularly. 99% of the time if u were to seek advice on shoulder rehab/prehab you would no doubt be told internal/external rotations, R.I.C.E., serratus work etc. But for me the most effective by a mile was getting stronger in the overhead position. Balancing and supporting a load overhead as you put your body through different movements. The lower traps, mid traps, levator scap, are key for bulletproofing shoulders.

 

[Aleks Sytsevich]

Funny how you say"ignore everything this idiot says" and than you go on to recommend 2 of the very same things I touched on in this thread. I could see this kind of response from you last time with that highly questionable lifting rx I offered, but this time your just showing what a sad litle punk you are. Your really holding an internet grudge against me and discounting any/everything I have to offer on a public forum? Why? BC I dared to challenge your almighty authority on the subject. Such a weak weak move on your part buddy.

Arelec took the portion of the post he thought was foolish and referenced that in the his quote. Reread his quote of what you said.

 

[Eric Brown]

Your really holding an internet grudge against me and discounting any/everything I have to offer on a public forum?

Grudge? Seriously? Who in the fuck are you? I could search your past posts but it is fairly clear that it would be a waste of time.

And given the nature of the shit advice you gave with respect to training, with the majority of it being wrong, it is generally best to ignore all of it. Or at least safer. Much of your advice was detrimental.

And speaking of ignore, I will not be seeing your posts any more, so feel free to have the last word.

 

[dsdoubled]

Grudge? Seriously? Who in the fuck are you? I could search your past posts but it is fairly clear that it would be a waste of time.

And given the nature of the shit advice you gave with respect to training, with the majority of it being wrong, it is generally best to ignore all of it. Or at least safer. Much of your advice was detrimental.

And speaking of ignore, I will not be seeing your posts any more, so feel free to have the last word.

Like I said, why say "ignore everything this idiot says" and then go on to offer the very same tip I offered about lighter snatches for more reps and another about a wider grip being better? Also like I said, that 1st time u got on me about that exercise rx I gave the dude, that was warranted. It was highly suspect and not my best work. I just dont get it man, especially if your such an experienced, seasoned, coach, why come at me a second time with insults when A. I wasnt talking to you, and B. there was nothing dangerous about what I offered. It was advice that I have tried personally as a means to improving the snatch and used it with a handful of others. Could there be a better way outside my level of knowledge/application? Im sure there could be. Thats supposed to be where people like u come in. Tell me why Im off instead of just shitting on it. You say you dont waste your time being nice to people on the internet, but your on Sherdog bro, what the fuck are u doing here? Gimme a break dude I was never claiming to know it all, just trying to contribute to these threads bc its what I love. If you could just maybe actually respond to something I say instead of shooting more insults my way thatd be way more productive. And since you are even on this forum in the 1st place, it shouldnt be too much to ask.

 

[BobVulture]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Definitely a lot of things i need to try out.

-I definitely do need to work on my overall strength, particularly in regards to my upper body. I've always had a really weak upper body, especially shoulders, so overhead stability is something I can struggle with.
-Regarding my grip width, while I definitely do have a narrower grip I think the angle is really exaggerating the degree of narrowness. I've had shoulder issues in the past and a wider grip has sometimes aggravated that, although I was only really messing around with snatches back then. I tried widening my grip for a couple sets friday and today, and it actually felt pretty solid so I'll continue to give that a shot.
-I've always had trouble moving my feet, unless I make a conscious effort to, but consider what was said here and over at the pendlay forum it's something I should probably start to get used to doing. Also gave that a try friday and today and, while it felt a bit awkward at times, I was able to hit 184 as smoothly as I ever have.

 

[JoeToProAthlete]

Hey,
I'm a USA Weightlifting sports performance coach. I'm also taking my USAW level 2 Advanced Sports Performance Coach course the 14-15th of this month.

I see several posts have already touched on a few small improvements you could make with your technique. Aside from that, my only advice is to back off. Sometimes, especially when we are on the verge of a new PR, we keep pushing and pushing to increase weight. Try going lighter.

For one, using lighter weight will help you to focus on the speed and technique improvements you need to bust through your plateau.

For two, your body needs those light days. When programming weightlifting routines, we regularly include de-loading weeks between each few weeks of heavier lifting. This will help you continue making progress. I often come back stronger after my de-load week.

All-in-all, your form isn't too bad. Focus on your cues and remember SPEED!
Your snatch total of 190 is 77 or 78% of your clean and jerk total of 245. The ideal ratio is 80%. If your snatch falls behind (you snatch less than 80% of your clean and jerk), your speed has fallen behind your strength. If your clean falls behind (you snatch over 80% of your clean and jerk total), then your strength has fallen behind your speed. That should give you some direction on what to work and when to work it. Right now, just keep working and remember to back off.

Joe
www.joetoproathlete.com

 

[modena1983]

Everything Eric and elevate have said. You also lean a little forward on the catch which caused you to drop it. This may be due to a lack of tightness. The lack of tightness could be due to narrow grip. Definitely play with a wider grip. The bar also gets away from you a bit IMO.

 

[3 dimensional]

how did you learn this movement? you can pm me... or post here. thanks, in advance. i want to learn this sucker. i have been practicing the power clean and high pull

 

[Eric Brown]

Ideally you learn weightlifting from a qualified coach.

 

[Oblivian]

how did you learn this movement? you can pm me... or post here. thanks, in advance. i want to learn this sucker. i have been practicing the power clean and high pull

As Eric said, it's ideal to learn from a coach as it's a pretty technical lift, but you can also learn on your own. There are a lot of resources out there to try to teach you and video w/ feedback can go a long way.