Side Bends, what are they good for?

Ascendant said:
From my understanding, side bends work mostly your quadratus lumborum, a muscle that almost NO ONE needs shorter or stronger. I believe it to have limited effect on the obliques, and the combination of that and the tendency for QL's to cause and exacerbate lower back problems and go undiagnosed/treated for many years leads me to agree that side bends are, in fact, a nearly worthless exercise.
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Not being contradictory for the sake of it, but side bends were recommended by my physical therapist as a focused method to strengthen the quadratus lumborums as they are stabilizers to the lower spine. I have a severely herniated disk and performing this has been highly correlated with relief from symptoms. The only muscle he specifically said to watch out for the iliopsoas (spelling?) as those can exacerbate lower back symptoms like a muh by pulling your pelvis out of alignment IIRC.

I don't mean to be rude, but what is your source that training your QLs will exacerbate lower back problems?
 
There is a right way and a wrong way.
 
dza76wutang said:
Not being contradictory for the sake of it, but side bends were recommended by my physical therapist as a focused method to strengthen the quadratus lumborums as they are stabilizers to the lower spine. I have a severely herniated disk and performing this has been highly correlated with relief from symptoms. The only muscle he specifically said to watch out for the iliopsoas (spelling?) as those can exacerbate lower back symptoms like a muh by pulling your pelvis out of alignment IIRC.

I don't mean to be rude, but what is your source that training your QLs will exacerbate lower back problems?
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You're not being rude at all dza76wutang. Your PT was right on that if you have a specific type of lumbar herniation, strengthening the QL's can help alleviate symptoms. In that same diagnosis, hip flexor work (iliopsoas and to some extent rectus femoris) would be contraindicated. In other cases, such as an anterior bulge/subluxation, lengthening and relaxing of the QL's can take the pressure off an anteriorally tilted pelvis. That's all re: herniations.

On a much, much more broad scale, the vast majority of lower back pain is not caused from herniated disks (client may HAVE herniated disks, as many people do, but they end up not being the source of the pain), but rather from hypertonic(always tense or "spasming") muscles; generally, proximal spinal erector group, hip flexors, and QL's are the muscles that should be lengthened and sourced for adhesions in the myofascial network, and trigger points (particularly in the QL's) in a client with lower crossed syndrome. Relief of those symptoms usually brings an immediate and lasting reduction in pain. One quality of a tense muscle is that it wil radiate out tension to those muscles around it, closest muscles to primary getting the most carryover. We can use this principle for good, by using it to turn on and fire muscles that we've lost much neuromuscular control over. But it's also a bad aspect of our bodies because it means that with tight QL's comes a tight lower back. Because we use them for almost everything we do (every breath, each time we step, and of course any lateral flexion) these muscles rarely see true rest or relief. They're also moderately difficultto stretch and are prone to forming those trigger points I mentioned.

Shortened QL's pull the posterior pelvis upwards and cause the lower back to arch uncomfortably, and after long enough in that position the tension spreads and the muscles of the lower back "learn" to stay chronically shortened. Which is also why jus massaging or foam rolling the lower back to relieve pain is either ineffective or only a very temporary solution.

I hope that helps answer your questions, let me know if you have more or anything was unclear.
 
Ascendant said:
You're not being rude at all dza76wutang. Your PT was right on that if you have a specific type of lumbar herniation, strengthening the QL's can help alleviate symptoms. In that same diagnosis, hip flexor work (iliopsoas and to some extent rectus femoris) would be contraindicated. In other cases, such as an anterior bulge/subluxation, lengthening and relaxing of the QL's can take the pressure off an anteriorally tilted pelvis. That's all re: herniations.

On a much, much more broad scale, the vast majority of lower back pain is not caused from herniated disks (client may HAVE herniated disks, as many people do, but they end up not being the source of the pain), but rather from hypertonic(always tense or "spasming") muscles; generally, proximal spinal erector group, hip flexors, and QL's are the muscles that should be lengthened and sourced for adhesions in the myofascial network, and trigger points (particularly in the QL's) in a client with lower crossed syndrome. Relief of those symptoms usually brings an immediate and lasting reduction in pain. One quality of a tense muscle is that it wil radiate out tension to those muscles around it, closest muscles to primary getting the most carryover. We can use this principle for good, by using it to turn on and fire muscles that we've lost much neuromuscular control over. But it's also a bad aspect of our bodies because it means that with tight QL's comes a tight lower back. Because we use them for almost everything we do (every breath, each time we step, and of course any lateral flexion) these muscles rarely see true rest or relief. They're also moderately difficultto stretch and are prone to forming those trigger points I mentioned.

Shortened QL's pull the posterior pelvis upwards and cause the lower back to arch uncomfortably, and after long enough in that position the tension spreads and the muscles of the lower back "learn" to stay chronically shortened. Which is also why jus massaging or foam rolling the lower back to relieve pain is either ineffective or only a very temporary solution.

I hope that helps answer your questions, let me know if you have more or anything was unclear.
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So what do you suggest to lenghten the QL/lower back ?
 
Ascendent you knocked it out of the park, thanks for addressing my question.
 
saxonsidebend.jpg

these are great
 
I did a sidebend once. It messed up my lumbar spine for two weeks. OJ wasn't lying. I'd rather do an isometric suitcase deadlift hold with a real heavy DB or a barbell if you have the wrist strength. Since my core is engaged in an isometric fashion when I squat/deadlift/press, that's how I train it.
 
k1ck said:
So what do you suggest to lenghten the QL/lower back ?
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This.

Ascendant said:
It's hard to explain over text, but - lay on your side but prop your torso up off the floor with the same side arm, so you make a sideways j with your body. Lower yourself onto the foam roll with your ribs as far away from your the top of the hip as you can. Once you sink down onto the spot, slowly take your arm away and lower your torso down to the ground. You should have the roll very deep into your side this way, and it will probably be pretty painful. Hang out the for a while until the pain goes down, then slowly rotate/lean backwards, still keeping your body perpendicular to the roller. You should be able to get to about a 45 degree lean backwards eventually, but it should also feel like hell. So, its not so much of a "roll" as it is a hold, and rotate backwards, hold, rotate, etc.
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MASShole said:
I hold one db as well. I think the two db thing might help strengthen the shoulders by using fatigue at the end of a workout or something.
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i used a 25lb plate last time i did them

i was hella sore
 
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