Elections Should the US election be decided by electoral votes or popular votes?

[avenue94]

OK, a few things.

This obviously isn't a new concept, with roots tracing back to Plato. However in modern times, it has been coined by a particular political philosopher as epistocricy.

https://aeon.co/ideas/the-right-to-vote-should-be-restricted-to-those-with-knowledge

it's worth a read as it gives some insight into what the details might look like, it's not too long an article. For something longer, just Google the work of Brennan mentioned in the article.

As for examples today, there aren't any exactly like that. However, there are some countries where the only people that have to vote are the citizens who are literate. Obviously it's not the same, but the underlying theme is. Intelligent people are the ones who should be making the decisions.

Glanced over it, didn't tell me much. If it's a good idea, surely one of the hundreds of democracies, or even non democracies would have tried it so far. So who's tried it?

The fact that no one uses it, just like the electoral college, should be a major red flag that it's a bad idea. And which countries require a literacy test to vote? Again, I can't think of any, so if you know them, feel free to toss them out.

I can also assure you that having more intelligent people in charge would absolutely not have the policy results you hope for.

 

[bobgeese]

Glanced over it, didn't tell me much. If it's a good idea, surely one of the hundreds of democracies, or even non democracies would have tried it so far. So who's tried it?
.

What an absolutely asinine statement.

"If a modernized electrical grid was such a good idea, then why haven't we implemented it?"

 

[avenue94]

What an absolutely asinine statement.

"If a modernized electrical grid was such a good idea, then why haven't we implemented it?"

Well, money there. But again, to argue that the electoral college is a brilliant process even though every other democracy avoided it like the plague is a damning indictment of its worth. But like I said, feel free to give me these real world examples of intelligence tests being used successfully to shrink the franchise and being good for a country.

 

[bobgeese]

Well, money there. But again, to argue that the electoral college is a brilliant process even though every other democracy avoided it like the plague is a damning indictment of its worth. But like I said, feel free to give me these real world examples of intelligence tests being used successfully to shrink the franchise and being good for a country.

Where did I argue that the electoral college was brilliant? I prefer it, but that's not saying much.

Also I told you there are examples where the educated are compelled to vote while the non-educated are not required. Not to mention these ideas can be traced back to Pluto.

 

[avenue94]

Where did I argue that the electoral college was brilliant? I prefer it, but that's not saying much.

Also I told you there are examples where the educated are compelled to vote while the non-educated are not required. Not to mention these ideas can be traced back to Pluto.

OK, what are these modern examples? Give me these countries please, as I'm not familiar with anyone in the past century.

 

[badascan]

The medias votes and dead people...

 

[Day Drinking]

Let it be noted you ducked the question.

Electing a politician is exactly the same as flying an airplane. Gotcha.

No false equivalence there. None at all.

 

[bobgeese]

OK, what are these modern examples? Give me these countries please, as I'm not familiar with anyone in the past century.

I know one is Brazil, tried to find the rest. You can search for yourself if you're interested.

 

[bobgeese]

Electing a politician is exactly the same as flying an airplane. Gotcha.

No false equivalence there. None at all.

So then tell me, why do you think people who know nothing of foreign policy, economics, or civics should have a say?


What is the value in the opinion of the uninformed?


I fully expect you to duck this question by the way.

 

[andnowweknow]

Competence? Our last two presidents can't speak three full sentences. You could literally find more qualified people by putting all of the war room members names in a hat and picking for at random.

As far as who creates the test, perhaps it could be the Department of Education. That way they could ensure everyone is taught the necessary civics lessons required to pass the test. The information would be freely available to anyone who wanted to study it.

I never thought I'd see you spouting full on Utopia principles. Ideally a test would be great. Socialism is a great idea too.

 

[Day Drinking]

So then tell me, why do you think people who know nothing of foreign policy, economics, or civics should have a say?


What is the value in the opinion of the uninformed?


I fully expect you to duck this question by the way.

They get a say because it affects them. That's kinda the point of democracy.

If you dont agree that people should have a say in governance, then why would being knowledgeable mean anything?

 

[avenue94]

I know one is Brazil, tried to find the rest. You can search for yourself if you're interested.

I did, that's why I asked. Brazil used the literacy test pre-democratic transition. No one is citing Brazil, pre or post democracy, as some shining model of governance to emulate.

Here's the bottom line. Even if a test was good, it would abused. It's too ripe for that.

 

[Officer Rick]

I think the president should be chosen by thumb wrestling

 

[bobgeese]

I did, that's why I asked. Brazil used the literacy test pre-democratic transition. No one is citing Brazil, pre or post democracy, as some shining model of governance to emulate.

Here's the bottom line. Even if a test was good, it would abused. It's too ripe for that.

An abused test is still better than letting morons vote. Sorry that hurt your feelings, but it's the truth.

 

[bobgeese]

I never thought I'd see you spouting full on Utopia principles. Ideally a test would be great. Socialism is a great idea too.

Read post 199 and the link.


It's not that radical of an idea. The problem is big hearted leftists would never be able to admit that not everyone is equal.

 

[bobgeese]

They get a say because it affects them.

Stunning and brave...

 

[avenue94]

An abused test is still better than letting morons vote. Sorry that hurt your feelings, but it's the truth.

Doesn't' hurt my feelings, not sure why it would. So you're pretty much saying the U.S. should revert back to pre-VRA and allowed states to abuse their tests for partisan gain. Okaaaaay.

 

[blaseblah]

The electoral college is bullshit considering electors are allowed to ignore the voters. They need to get rid of that part at least.

 

[bobgeese]

the U.S. should revert back to pre-VRA and allowed states to abuse their tests for partisan gain. Okaaaaay.

Clearly you're incapable of grasping big ideas. Go read what I provided you and stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[avenue94]

Clearly you're incapable of grasping big ideas. Go read what I provided you and stop embarrassing yourself.

I did and it was dumb. Just like the idea of an intelligence test for voting is a dumb idea if you want a healthy democracy or functional one even. You're asking us to believe that it's a great idea when it was abandoned specifically because it was a terrible idea and no one uses it anymore. And you yourself admitted it's likely to be abused. Let alone the unworkable logistics problems of who the fuck would even impose a test since it would be state by state.