Should I learn game coding?

[khukurikoo]

You can always give it a shot. But I've heard people who get into video game design and programming because they like video games usually end up hating the entire industry and video games as well after awhile.

 

[Bob Gray]

A lot of truth here.

Beautiful products are often the result of a brutal, unseen process.

What people think a game dev is:
Interest in games: [ ***** ]
Playing games: [ ***** ]
Programming xp: [ * ]
Comp sci xp: [ ]
People skills: [ * ]
AI: [ *** ]

What it actually is:
Interest in games: [ * ]
Playing games: [ * ]
Programming xp: [ ***** ]
Comp sci xp: [ *** ]
People skills: [ *** ]
AI: [ ]

Also, the job market is brutal everywhere and its not just games.

There are a million developers but to be frank most suck. I know many companies (personally) in the US, EU, OCE, that are in need of good programmers and just keep cycling duds.

The AI thing is mostly hype. There's some nice tooling but for real work I just see it generating massive amounts of technical debt.

I've seen a couple of products/companies implode already because of it.
2 of my contracts at the moment are basically refactoring products that are a complete mess because of this.

So do you do a lot of freelancing?

 

[chardog]

What a game dev will be in 5 years:

What it actually is:
Interest in games: [ ***** ]
Playing games: [ ** ]
Programming xp: [ * ]
Comp sci xp: [ ]
People skills: [ *** ]
AI: [******]

nope, AI is nothing

it's going to get 1 star *

lets say you have a measly 500 lines of code and you encounter a bug, yes AI produces bugs all the time.

without good programming skills, you wont know how to solve it. AI can get into a loop of spitting out bad answers.

secondly, AI is only as good as the questions presented. Non developers arent good enough to ask the right questions, otherwise corporate would stop bothering me already. AI might be spitting out code, but what if it's an integrated existing class with a lot of dependencies? that would take a midlevel programmer to figure out, and there wont be if your theory holds true. Big companies move slower than small companies with development, there are certain practices that AI cant help with, and by the time you become proficient figuring out the questions and the depth of the questions, you could have already became a programmer, sometimes the time it takes to figure out the right question to ask, I could have already finished that function in a clean manner with debugging and profiling in mind, using the companies naming conventions and ever changing code documentation practices. Even when I work with senior level IT, they're often clueless at times with the most basic scripts to copy data, for instance, moving data into a very big array with a billion files can be tricky if you're good with throttling techniques and have a way of segmenting data, you can easily bring the entire company down to a crawl, you're not going to be able to solve something like this with AI and its rudimentary solutions, you have to be a problem solver and use outside the box thinking.


AI is useful because google has become trash, however, it's a life enhancement at best. I dont have to google very specific syntax, and instead, I can have AI generate small portions, like a regex search, no way I can remember how to do that shit, but AI has me covered..... otherwise it would be five minutes on google parsing through ads to find the right solution.

 

[lsa]

You can always give it a shot. But I've heard people who get into video game design and programming because they like video games usually end up hating the entire industry and video games as well after awhile.

You heard wrong.
Most people seems to stay in the business for a long time.
What was a big problem in the gaming industry when I left was burn outs.
Gaming companies HR were worthless and it was cool to work a lot of overtime.
But these days it seems to have gotten better and the salaries has increased, there is also better game developer courses / schools than before.

Over the years I seen very few people leave /starting to hate the business.
The people that left still loves games and gaming.

 

[Trabaho]

You can always give it a shot. But I've heard people who get into video game design and programming because they like video games usually end up hating the entire industry and video games as well after awhile.

Yeah it's probably boring as fuck. After 8 h computer work I won't even have the motivation to play a game. What I can learn trough the eduction can be learned by myself in my spare time.

So I could make a security masters or maybe ask them to test me for accountant claiming I could be talented for it. Or get into somthing esle IT related.

Security is the fast way and yoy can start earnibg money with it again, and more than before. I can educate mtself post 40. Right now at close to 38, giving 2 ywars to schooling seems wasteful timing.

Time is money so basically I ponedered for 2 weeks already straight

Time literaly is money

 

[djacobox372]

nope, AI is nothing

it's going to get 1 star *

lets say you have a measly 500 lines of code and you encounter a bug, yes AI produces bugs all the time.

without good programming skills, you wont know how to solve it. AI can get into a loop of spitting out bad answers.

secondly, AI is only as good as the questions presented. Non developers arent good enough to ask the right questions, otherwise corporate would stop bothering me already. AI might be spitting out code, but what if it's an integrated existing class with a lot of dependencies? that would take a midlevel programmer to figure out, and there wont be if your theory holds true. Big companies move slower than small companies with development, there are certain practices that AI cant help with, and by the time you become proficient figuring out the questions and the depth of the questions, you could have already became a programmer, sometimes the time it takes to figure out the right question to ask, I could have already finished that function in a clean manner with debugging and profiling in mind, using the companies naming conventions and ever changing code documentation practices. Even when I work with senior level IT, they're often clueless at times with the most basic scripts to copy data, for instance, moving data into a very big array with a billion files can be tricky if you're good with throttling techniques and have a way of segmenting data, you can easily bring the entire company down to a crawl, you're not going to be able to solve something like this with AI and its rudimentary solutions, you have to be a problem solver and use outside the box thinking.


AI is useful because google has become trash, however, it's a life enhancement at best. I dont have to google very specific syntax, and instead, I can have AI generate small portions, like a regex search, no way I can remember how to do that shit, but AI has me covered..... otherwise it would be five minutes on google parsing through ads to find the right solution.

You're talking about AI now... I was talking about it in 5 years on it's current trajectory.

I do agree that creative problem solving is the actual skill of value, but "learning to code" isn't the best path to bolster that skill... in fact it can present needless barriers of thought. Like the ones you seem to hold on this topic as we debate it.

Human coding is laughably bloated and limited... once AI starts coding without using the crutch of a language interface built for human coders, all bets are off.

We'll find out who's right... the critiques of current AI sort of remind me of critiquing a 6'5" middle school center saying "he's too short to ever play in the NBA", as if he's done growing.

All I can say is that I'm not an engineer, but I have engineers that work for me to support my creative work... and I need them noticeably less than I used to, and that's with the limited AI we have now.

 

[facePuncher7]

You guys are deluded into coping what you think I think. You do NOT know what I think. I KNOW game programing is just tedious coding and writing and computer wizarding and NOT someone caring about any ideas, fantasies or anything fun. It's just computer work. And it's tedious. It is a job. It's called work.

You're proving the pint I'm trying to make.

I would advise you to look elsewhere.

 

[facePuncher7]

You're talking about AI now... I was talking about it in 5 years on it's current trajectory.

Human coding is laughably bloated and limited... once AI starts coding without using the crutch of a language interface built so that the limited mind of a human can use it, all bets are off.

I do agree that creative problem solving is the actual skill of value, but "learning to code" isn't the best path to bolster that skill... in fact it can present needless barriers of thought. Like the ones you seem to hold on this topic as we debate it.

We'll find out who's right... but the critiques of current AI sort of remind me of critiquing a 6'5" middle school center saying "he's too short to ever play in the NBA", as if he's done growing.

The current trajectory is based on hype.

I have 25 years experience and connections with software houses around the world.

You don't have to believe me, but it seems like the foolish option.

 

[facePuncher7]

So do you do a lot of freelancing?

Yeah, plus I employ my own staff.

 

[Prefect]

research fields that won't be consumed by AI and get training in them

The bar is lower with AI to do interesting work. I redid my website so that it was 3d and had cameras panning around animated models and shit. I don't know shit about html, javascript, or CSS. The good game programmers will be using it to clean up shit that they don't and shouldn't be wasting their time cleaning up.

That said, while making a game is fun, on the bottom end, it is hard, very hard. Doable if you are extremely dedicated but very hard. Here are some talks from guys who have made careers being independents.

Both of these talks are very good. I wouldn't describe the industry as bleak but if you can do the job and pay the bills, you are in the upper tier.

 

[PBAC]

The bar is lower with AI to do interesting work. I redid my website so that it was 3d and had cameras panning around animated models and shit. I don't know shit about html, javascript, or CSS. The good game programmers will be using it to clean up shit that they don't and shouldn't be wasting their time cleaning up.

That said, while making a game is fun, on the bottom end, it is hard, very hard. Doable if you are extremely dedicated but very hard. Here are some talks from guys who have made careers being independents.

Both of these talks are very good. I wouldn't describe the industry as bleak but if you can do the job and pay the bills, you are in the upper tier.

My only experience with game making came from RPG maker and Game Maker. Personally I found those quite easy if you just have the patience for it. More dedicated game developers told me if youcode you can basically shorten the time it takes to make a game in RPG maker down by like 90% because you're essentially just typing it in like a novel. I see games like Cave Story made by one designer and it strikes me as doable. I mean once you have the base code for the game type you basically just work with the design, textures and tweek the gameplay. I was going to post a character set for a 2d platforemer made by chatgpt but it's lying to me about its capabilities right now: ''I can't generate pixel art directly, but I can guide you through the process or help you find tools to create it. If you want, I can design a detailed reference sheet with descriptions of each sprite frame so you can use it as a guide for creating the character set.''

I believe AI gen games are already doable and are already being made but much like most of the released products they are being witheld from the public. If it is released game devs will be hurt bad and entire teams will need to be downsized. They would need a new kind of gaming medium to survive on.

I don't see any reason why something like Rpg Maker couldn't be fitted with an AI programme that could design an entire game/maps based on a prompt, or better yet Unreal Engine.

 

[PBAC]

trying again CHATGPT is being more honest: I wasn't able to generate the sprite sheet because the request didn't follow content policy guidelines

So it seems like it could create character sprites for video games already but the devs have it locked out.

 

[facePuncher7]

Same thing with xr, same thing with blockchain, Segways will replace the need to walk, home 3d printing will revolutionise manufacturing, smart watched will make phones obsolete, immersive UI, nosql, real time web..

All of them at some point had a level of hype approaching what AI currently has. None of them delivered.
If you're new to the game I don't blame you for getting caught up in it, it's a powerful machine you're plugged into and its sole purpose is to convince you of ideas and create fear.

It will be junk-ware in 10 years. It's already bloatware in every product under the sun.

 

[facePuncher7]

Also @Trabaho , I say all this from experience.

I was a gamer that wanted to make games, so I educated myself through my teens and early 20s.
I discovered the games industry was extremely difficult to get a job in, and what was on offer even if you got it wasn't good.
Low pay for long days doing complex mind work.
It's not "tedious", you can fall asleep after doing something tedious. Programming often requires concerted and deliberate mental focus and effort.
Burnout is common because many people get to a point where they can't "turn off".

And the games industry is harsher now than when I had a crack at it.

As per my previous suggestion - if you really want to have a good remote job, become a good mid level c# developer or something.
Heaps of work, good money generally (20-40% above average), companies will claw to hang onto you if you're decent. But no dragons sorry.

 

[facePuncher7]

My only experience with game making came from RPG maker and Game Maker. Personally I found those quite easy if you just have the patience for it. More dedicated game developers told me if youcode you can basically shorten the time it takes to make a game in RPG maker down by like 90% because you're essentially just typing it in like a novel. I see games like Cave Story made by one designer and it strikes me as doable. I mean once you have the base code for the game type you basically just work with the design, textures and tweek the gameplay. I was going to post a character set for a 2d platforemer made by chatgpt but it's lying to me about its capabilities right now: ''I can't generate pixel art directly, but I can guide you through the process or help you find tools to create it. If you want, I can design a detailed reference sheet with descriptions of each sprite frame so you can use it as a guide for creating the character set.''

I believe AI gen games are already doable and are already being made but much like most of the released products they are being witheld from the public. If it is released game devs will be hurt bad and entire teams will need to be downsized. They would need a new kind of gaming medium to survive on.

I don't see any reason why something like Rpg Maker couldn't be fitted with an AI programme that could design an entire game/maps based on a prompt, or better yet Unreal Engine.

There are editor plugins for a number of engines already, community made. They're all pretty trash.
It's easy to start something small like "create 10 randomly sized cubes and make a character that can jump between them".
But a real project, tens of thousands of lines split between hundreds of files, endless integrations, mountains of assets of various types..
It just wrecks stuff, it is pretty much useless with large context and I don't see that changing.

trying again CHATGPT is being more honest: I wasn't able to generate the sprite sheet because the request didn't follow content policy guidelines

So it seems like it could create character sprites for video games already but the devs have it locked out.

ChatGPT is the wrong tool for this.
There isn't really a "right tool", but you can do better with systems more designed for this type of work.

 

[Trabaho]

Also @Trabaho , I say all this from experience.

I was a gamer that wanted to make games, so I educated myself through my teens and early 20s.
I discovered the games industry was extremely difficult to get a job in, and what was on offer even if you got it wasn't good.
Low pay for long days doing complex mind work.
It's not "tedious", you can fall asleep after doing something tedious. Programming often requires concerted and deliberate mental focus and effort.
Burnout is common because many people get to a point where they can't "turn off".

And the games industry is harsher now than when I had a crack at it.

As per my previous suggestion - if you really want to have a good remote job, become a good mid level c# developer or something.
Heaps of work, good money generally (20-40% above average), companies will claw to hang onto you if you're decent. But no dragons sorry.

What career field utlizes c+ ?

I sort of am lretty sure I'm just gonna go for security master as it's quick and can get me paid well. Than invest in tourism back home, I actually got land in 2 good locations which are touristsy. 1 is touristsy 1 is niche but seems to work too. So make money and decide if I would take a loan from the bank to get it going.

 

[SandisLL]

wtf is "game programmer"

should it be "programmer" that specializes in gaming? sorta like doctors and their specialties?

if you're a programmer, there are a lot of opportunities and the pay can be good to excellent. You're basically paid to solve problems, so you better be good at problem solving.

In gaming industry there is high level of concurrence and ....if you want to get normal salary then yes....programmer for gamedev is niche in programming job market.
Nuances are that they often are dropping out from business opportunities and long term contracts etc... also a lot of dreamland type stuff.

While for high level as programmer it is very difficult.
More stability is in cryptography etc field and firmware dev jobs etc. These usually includes that you are able to do low level programming. As low level it is meaning there closer to " iron " and firmware type stuff.

Unity is not bad but .. pros and cons.
This isn't basis at all.

If you can't programm today then.... I don't know what to tell.

Some C, C++ plus add something ofc....A lot ....
Gamedev in core is very hard field in programming.
Management more often is weird...than in fields like cryptography or firmware etc.

 

[SandisLL]

Same thing with xr, same thing with blockchain, Segways will replace the need to walk, home 3d printing will revolutionise manufacturing, smart watched will make phones obsolete, immersive UI, nosql, real time web..

All of them at some point had a level of hype approaching what AI currently has. None of them delivered.
If you're new to the game I don't blame you for getting caught up in it, it's a powerful machine you're plugged into and its sole purpose is to convince you of ideas and create fear.

It will be junk-ware in 10 years. It's already bloatware in every product under the sun.

UI ( user interface ) is stuff where money hungry business is connecting with....paying customers and their clients. So not usable, obviously maybe today AI boxes does have real money to pay in order to replace real humans?
AI today is ML. Better marketed and so on.
If users doesn't have basic Intelect then AI will not help them. 0 chances.

 

[SandisLL]

Yeah it's probably boring as fuck. After 8 h computer work I won't even have the motivation to play a game. What I can learn trough the eduction can be learned by myself in my spare time.

So I could make a security masters or maybe ask them to test me for accountant claiming I could be talented for it. Or get into somthing esle IT related.

Security is the fast way and yoy can start earnibg money with it again, and more than before. I can educate mtself post 40. Right now at close to 38, giving 2 ywars to schooling seems wasteful timing.

Time is money so basically I ponedered for 2 weeks already straight

Time literaly is money

Security isn't easy way.
Yes, actually you can do for this regardless are you 21 y.o or 61 y.o. If about real life.
You will learn basics and then will be forced to learn almost on daily basis. . This real life. Plus papers, if more important position.
Bosses in private business usually does have little interest in this field. Marketing and sales looks for them more easy to understand and to get.... why they does needs this stuff.

Sys administration, dev ops, cyber security and even physical security ? If they doesn't see problem, then usually they are scared to pay. Despite these services are working in order to prevent bosses to see and to taste more problems.

 

[Ashen One]

If you're actually LEARNING something you should always try. Even if that means it doesn't end up being your career you can apply things you learned to others.