Rewatch Shogun v Forrest

[dog y]

Not that he's a bum. We just know what happened when Shogun was healthy and it's sux cuz we missed out on Rampage vs Shogun 2

Its also just being bummed out that the crossover happens like a year or 2 too late but all the Dana stand act like UFC was always better when though again all the stars from that era declined in sync

I don't know that Rampage would've accepted Shogun II after getting swiftly carcassed the first time. Wanderlei had declined a lot when they met for the 3rd time. Ofc I wish it'd happened.

 

[MigitAs]

Always bugged me that Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, yet nobody ever wants to give him any credit. Forrest went into that fight injured too. And for all the talk beforehand about how Forrest has no chin and couldn't hang if it hit the ground, he took Shoguns best shots and kept moving forward. Hit Shogun with some hard shots that seemed to slow him down despite his rep for having no power, and out hustled him on the ground while being patient and taking almost no damage there.

Yes Shogun came in hurt but Griffin also had a good game plan and fought a very smart and tactical fight. He did against Rampage as well.

His perfect exit would’ve been to retire after the Evan’s loss

 

[ocfightfan]

Pride not only allowed but actively encouraged performance enhancers. I think the guys that came over and looked less superhuman went cold turkey because they thought the UFC had a real drug testing program instead of the superficial iq test that they had at the time. Add to that a different format with different rules and they just weren't ready to deal with the new situation. Most of them ended up doing well over the long haul because they were still highly talented. They just didn't wipe the floor from the start like all the Pride superfans thought they would.

 

[volcom5]

Not that he's a bum. We just know what happened when Shogun was healthy and it's sux cuz we missed out on Rampage vs Shogun 2

Its also just being bummed out that the crossover happens like a year or 2 too late but all the Dana stand act like UFC was always better when though again all the stars from that era declined in sync

This is what I mean, suddenly Shogun was healthy 4yrs later? After having a few more surgeries? I’ll say it like how you fans say it, Forrest Griffin was out of his prime!!! A prime Forrest Griffin would’ve beaten Shogun… o wait….

In all honesty though, Shogun beat a Forrest Griffin who mind was even in the fight, his wife was in labor back in the states, this bout was in Brazil after Forrest loss he literally left the Octagon private jet home via Dana.

I think you’re mistaken with the Dana stans, it was the complete opposite, the PrideFC stans boasting that UFC could never compete and was going to get wiped once they came over, that’s not what occurred, what occurred was that the UFC fighters could always compete and stylistically fighters from both orgs were going interchange wins/losses.

But fans of Pride couldn’t comprehend that their favorites losing, so the entire “out of his prime” excuses came about and stuck to this day.

Yes, they all declined around the same time. But it was always matchups. I seen Tito beat Wanderlei when he came over from Pride to try get title, he loss and I think he would’ve always loss to Couture, Liddel and Ortiz. Rampage, Henderson were awlays going to do good. Noguiera I believe would’ve done better had he not been in so many wars and out of all the PrideFC fighters who came over, his strength is schedule blows them all out of the water in both orgs, I admire Noguiera as a fighter much more than Fedor or Crocop. What Pride fanboys just couldn’t admit is that fighters from both orgs were always going to be competitive. That’s the reality of it.

 

[djacobox372]

Miraculously just about every PRIDE star was instantly out of their prime as soon as they stepped for in America. Or got staph

Pride fighters fared no worse than the UFC fighters of the same era (Rich, Chuck, Randy, Hughes, Penn).

 

[volcom5]

Forrest has a great resume and many really good wins over big names. Most his loses were against legends. Never understood the Shit Forest gets. He beat many great fighters.

It’s because he’s a product of the UFC, literally half of the coin of what saved the UFC from bankruptcy. And we know how everyone on this site literally hates anything and everything UFC. Forrest has beaten more notable champions(Shogun, Jackson, Ortiz, Franklin) in MMA than Wanderlei Silva(Henderson, Jackson, Bisping).

 

[BowserJr]

This is what I mean, suddenly Shogun was healthy 4yrs later? After having a few more surgeries? I’ll say it like how you fans say it, Forrest Griffin was out of his prime!!! A prime Forrest Griffin would’ve beaten Shogun… o wait….

In all honesty though, Shogun beat a Forrest Griffin who mind was even in the fight, his wife was in labor back in the states, this bout was in Brazil after Forrest loss he literally left the Octagon private jet home via Dana.

I think you’re mistaken with the Dana stans, it was the complete opposite, the PrideFC stans boasting that UFC could never compete and was going to get wiped once they came over, that’s not what occurred, what occurred was that the UFC fighters could always compete and stylistically fighters from both orgs were going interchange wins/losses.

But fans of Pride couldn’t comprehend that their favorites losing, so the entire “out of his prime” excuses came about and stuck to this day.

Yes, they all declined around the same time. But it was always matchups. I seen Tito beat Wanderlei when he came over from Pride to try get title, he loss and I think he would’ve always loss to Couture, Liddel and Ortiz. Rampage, Henderson were awlays going to do good. Noguiera I believe would’ve done better had he not been in so many wars and out of all the PrideFC fighters who came over, his strength is schedule blows them all out of the water in both orgs, I admire Noguiera as a fighter much more than Fedor or Crocop. What Pride fanboys just couldn’t admit is that fighters from both orgs were always going to be competitive. That’s the reality of it.

Um shogun had 1 or 2 fights where he looked decent but still not the same. Multiple knee surgeries is generally career ending. Everything else is more or less agree with.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

It's a real damn shame we never saw prime Shogun in the UFC. Those dam CL injuries robbed us of watching his ballet of violence in the cage and the rematch vs the best/uninjured version of Rampage.

Pride haters like to say he wasn't that good cuz he lost to Forrest in the debut while ignoring the injury which prevented him from training any cardio.

He made a career of fighting 10 min rounds but here you can see he got tired and was flat footed after being on top for a few minutes. He also threw naked strikes and barged in thinking he'd blast thru B league UFC comp



In the rematch while not in his peak but at least without an active acl injury we saw what shogun could do to Forrest. Too bad this wasn't the first fight

Shogun looked fine to me...in the first fight..he was 25 no way past his prime...be just always fought ultra aggressive and that's gunna cost u sometimes .

Brazilians gunna brazil though...theres always a reason when these guys lose...

 

[BowserJr]

Shogun looked fine to me...in the first fight..he was 25 no way past his prime...be just always fought ultra aggressive and that's gunna cost u sometimes .

Brazilians gunna brazil though...theres always a reason when these guys lose...

He had an active CL tear. I don't care how old you are With an injury like that you're losing

 

[IDGETKTFO]

I disagree. I think we saw Prime Forrest. Its a shame we didn't see more of Prime Forrest.

 

[moreorless87]

Again with this prime Shogun shit. The best Shogun has ever looked in his entire career were the Machida bouts. It isn’t hard to just admit Forrest was the better that night. Shogun & Forrest are from the same generation and both started fighting at the same time. Jesus you fucks on here are irritating, every fighter who losses is out of their prime because you clowns can’t cope that maybe just maybe the other fighter is just better.

To be honest though I think its a lot of sideways devolpment with Shogun, his MWGP run and his UFC title run were both peaks but with different strenghts, the earlier run it was more a mix of speed/aggression and grappling whilst the latter run was more technical kickboxing.

I feel like post Machida after the ACL surgeries though he lost a lot of the kickboxing ability as his mobility declined, he was forced into becoming more aggressive again but without the same speed/cardio and grappling ability.

 

[Haj01]

One of teh greatest upsets... of teh night.

 

[BowserJr]

To be honest though I think its a lot of sideways devolpment with Shogun, his MWGP run and his UFC title run were both peaks but with different strenghts, the earlier run it was more a mix of speed/aggression and grappling whilst the latter run was more technical kickboxing.

I feel like post Machida after the ACL surgeries though he lost a lot of the kickboxing ability as his mobility declined, he was forced into becoming more aggressive again but without the same speed/cardio and grappling ability.

That's a pretty good analysis. I do think the latter peak was not as high as the former. The inverse of Vitor

 

[BowserJr]

I don't know that Rampage would've accepted Shogun II after getting swiftly carcassed the first time. Wanderlei had declined a lot when they met for the 3rd time. Ofc I wish it'd happened.

He wanted it. He had a rib injury going into their fight and was not mentally in a good place. He"s talked about it

 

[dog y]

He wanted it. He had a rib injury going into their fight and was not mentally in a good place. He"s talked about it

Maybe. I can say I want Ngannou, but that might not necessarily true. Ofc in this case I'd take him on for an easy paycheck.

 

[moreorless87]

That's a pretty good analysis. I do think the latter peak was not as high as the former. The inverse of Vitor

You could argue I spose it was a bit more specialised.

You watch the Machida and Chuck fights though and I think what stands out is how well he uses forward/backward movement and after the 3rd ACL injury he never had the same kind of agility to do that, he was forced to just stand and trade infront of people.

To be honest I think he did amazingly well to have such a long career after that in the UFC at a relatively high level considering how broken down he was physically.