Throwback Shogun v Forrest

[r-harper-1]

Maybe Forrest was underrated when he fought Shogun. Rua was 12-1 fighting in PRIDE, with his only loss being a freak dislocated elbow incident with Mark Coleman. How damaged could he have been? Lets face it, back then everyone thought PRIDE was so much better than the UFC, and they weren't. There was good fighters in both organizations, and that proved to be accurate when PRIDE folded. Some PRIDE guys had a lot of success in America, like A. Silva, Big Nog, and for awhile, Fedor. Others were good/ average, like Overeem, Lil Nog, Rampage, Shogun and others were flops, like Cro Cop, Gomi, Wandy. My point is, Forrest was a damn good fighter for awhile, not great, but on any given night, he could beat you if you didn't come prepared. No excuses, Forrest was better that night.

Nog fight and 2003 GP could wear a person out and you know multiple knee surgeries

 

[BarbellzNbacon]

I'm a huge Shogun fan as well, but let's not pretend that Shogun was washed up or complete trash during the time of the Forest fight. I mean he did go on afterwards to become UFC champion while beating Machida when no one had Machida figured out.

He did become champion. Ain't no pretending how he performed. We all knew his capabilities with GOOD HEALTH. But fact is fact, he loss. It's like saying chuck should've kept up with shogun had he not been knocked out by rampage and especially rashad.

 

[Elvis.]

In fairness to Griffin in the rematch with Shogun his wife had gone into labour and he may have been somewhat distracted

 

[Hymen Crusher]

Griffin was a really well rounded huge lhw. There wasn't a lot of guys back then that were ok at everything. Plus he is the size of a heavyweight. He was good. Glad he best Rua, I couldn't stand hearing about how he was the GOAT for years.

 

[MMAJunkie]

Miraculously just about every PRIDE star was instantly out of their prime as soon as they stepped for in America. Or got staph

The Pride guys were from Tito,Chuck, Randy, Arlovski, Sylvia's era.
How did they do at that point?

All from the same era.
All declined. All had wars.

 

[markys00]

This. All losses for Shogun/Fedor/Prime BJ Penn/Anderson are all completely discredited according to their fans. Also, Khabib has never had a second of a fight not go his way. Take Notoriously bad cardio Conor to the 4th round? "He wanted to punish him more." Fail to control Gatekeeper Al Iaquinta with wrestling? "Khabib wanted to prove he could win a stand-up fight."

Meanwhile, GSP's career is worthless because he tapped to strikes guess he's not one of the chosen few!

Pride nuthuggers picking their favorites over literally any opponent from any era:

Ur factoid about khabib is false. Objectively

 

[Hassan Mouzine]

i get it that people are praising forrest griffin for winning he title by beating both shogun and rampage......but let's be real honest...that was way above his ceiling, kudos to griffin.
if you actually look at his skills.....he is very limited. in this fight he looks like an amtateur. I'm not gonna bring up the Silva fight because in that fight he looked like an amateur as well but Silva was also at peak prime and thus it looked way worse.

the fact that Griffin won a UFC title. he literally accomplished more than wat was capable, defied the odds. He is nowhere near the lvl of some of the fighters at lhw but he stil got it done. It sometimes pains me to watch him fight, he really has shit technique, footwork, composure et etc but apparantly he knows how to get the best out of himself. respect for that

 

[Streeter]

Always bugged me that Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, yet nobody ever wants to give him any credit. Forrest went into that fight injured too. And for all the talk beforehand about how Forrest has no chin and couldn't hang if it hit the ground, he took Shoguns best shots and kept moving forward. Hit Shogun with some hard shots that seemed to slow him down despite his rep for having no power, and out hustled him on the ground while being patient and taking almost no damage there.

Yes Shogun came in hurt but Griffin also had a good game plan and fought a very smart and tactical fight. He did against Rampage as well.

Forrest has a great resume and many really good wins over big names. Most his loses were against legends. Never understood the Shit Forest gets. He beat many great fighters.

 

[Viking Power]

Always bugged me that Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, yet nobody ever wants to give him any credit. Forrest went into that fight injured too. And for all the talk beforehand about how Forrest has no chin and couldn't hang if it hit the ground, he took Shoguns best shots and kept moving forward. Hit Shogun with some hard shots that seemed to slow him down despite his rep for having no power, and out hustled him on the ground while being patient and taking almost no damage there.

Yes Shogun came in hurt but Griffin also had a good game plan and fought a very smart and tactical fight. He did against Rampage as well.

This

 

[Viking Power]

Anybody thinking that the rematch was anything like prime Forrest is delusional.

 

[rjmbrd]

Forrest was a great fighter, he had improved insanely after TUF. Isnt it worth accepting Forrest was just a better fighter rather than his opponents were out of prime?

Forrest was not a "great" fighter at any point in his career.

He is laughably uncoordinated. Its hilarious re-watching this rematch with Shogun, it looks like you picked someone out of the crowd who's in good shape. When he won the belt, in his own words he said verbatim "I'm just glad I got to fight here before the real athletes arrive."

I like Forrest - he's a nice guy and clearly a hard worker. I'm glad he achieved something in a sport that spits most out broken with little to show for it. When it comes to speed, athleticism and skill he's far from elite.

The reason a guy coming off a KO loss got hand picked for Anderson Silva is obvious. Look at what a lumbering, sloppy slow guy he looks like even years earlier.

 

[Streeter]

Forrest was not a "great" fighter at any point in his career.

He is laughably uncoordinated. Its hilarious re-watching this rematch with Shogun, it looks like you picked someone out of the crowd who's in good shape. When he won the belt, in his own words he said verbatim "I'm just glad I got to fight here before the real athletes arrive."

I like Forrest - he's a nice guy and clearly a hard worker. I'm glad he achieved something in a sport that spits most out broken with little to show for it. When it comes to speed, athleticism and skill he's far from elite.

The reason a guy coming off a KO loss got hand picked for Anderson Silva is obvious. Look at what a lumbering, sloppy slow guy he looks like even years earlier.

His big wins
Chael
Rampage
Shogun
Tito x2
Jardine
The Bonnar war

I don't think think anyone is saying Forsst is a GOAT tier fighter but you have to be a great fighter with that kind of resume whether the folks he faced were at their peak level or not. They weren't old when he fought them other than maybe Tito.

 

[JustBleed69]

I love how coincidentally all the pride guys were "out of their primes" when they got to the UFC lol.

 

[rjmbrd]

His big wins
Chael
Rampage
Shogun
Tito x2
Jardine
The Bonnar war

I don't think think anyone is saying Forsst is a GOAT tier fighter but you have to be a great fighter with that kind of resume whether the folks he faced were at their peak level or not. They weren't old when he fought them other than maybe Tito.

To be absolutely clear, there is no version of reality where Chael Sonnen is a "big win" in the light heavyweight division.

Keith Jardine knocked Forrest out in the first round. Thats how bad Forrest was. I can't seem to figure out how you have it the other way around?

Bonnar was a .500 UFC fighter and its not like he was fighting the best. This is not a meaningful win for quality of opponent.

He went 1-1 with Shogun and most sane fans will say Rua looked like cooked cat shit in that debut. Not a lot to unpack here, he casually murdered Griffin when they rematched.

I like Forrest. He seems like a good dude and he's certainly a hard worker. He did not have the athleticism, speed or skill to be an elite fighter.

 

[HHJ]

I like Forrest. He seems like a good dude and he's certainly a hard worker. He did not have the athleticism, speed or skill to be an elite fighter.

Makes the Rampage and Shogun wins all the more impressive.

 

[rjmbrd]

Makes the Rampage and Shogun wins all the more impressive.

Its always tricky picking what time span you want to review for context, so lets examine all of them for Shogun in the UFC.

5 fights in the UFC : 3-2 (he becomes the 4th guy in 5 fights to KO Chuck lol)
10 fights in the UFC: 5-5 (now a .500 fighter, murdered by Jones, loses to Hendo & Gus)
15 fights in the UFC: 7-8 (losing overall record, murdered by OSP, TKO'd by Hendo, tapped by Sonnen)

You know how the rest goes.

In any context nearby or within few years range of losing to Griffin, Shogun had a pretty bumpy go of things. Most of his wins are against middling talent or shot guys. Of course he got back his loss to Forrest with zero fuss, just went in with zero respect and put him down like a dog.

The workman decision over Rampage was solid, even if we set aside Rampage being vaguely disinterested. He was coming off a UFC return where he fought Eastman (lol) and started Liddells years-long KO loss run. Controversial decision with an undersized Hendo, then Forrest.

Rampage really doesn't get another contemporary, meaningful win in his career that time has been favorable to. When he has to fight guys who aren't nearly done with their career (Jones, Bader, Glover) they all beat him without fuss.

I like Forrest and he is the picture of a right place right time over achiever. I'm good with that.

 

[HHJ]

I love how coincidentally all the pride guys were "out of their primes" when they got to the UFC lol.

Its not coincidental

when you are fighting as much as they did for 5 straight yrs your gonna be worn the fuck out, esp if you gotta fight every 2 months and cant take the happy medicines to heal faster.

Mirko fought 8 fucking times in one year.

Think about how much damage these guys took in all that time.

Nog got beaten to fuck by Fedor, Mirko, and Sapp and had tons of other hard fights like Barnett etc

Fedor broke his hands alot of times and had a super explosive style throwing people around like they were laundry bags.


How long till it takes a toll?

 

[HHJ]

The workman decision over Rampage was solid, even if we set aside Rampage being vaguely disinterested

Im sure he was interested to keep his belt! lol

 

[rjmbrd]

Im sure he was interested to keep his belt! lol

Sorry let me back up - Rampage famously didn't want to train by this point in his career. You probably remember MusclePharm built an entire facility to force him to train (he even slept there during camp) because he simply could/would not do it of his own discipline. I remember watching a video of some guy in the facility shaking down his room like a prison and finding hidden snickers bars.

I don't think its surprising Rampage never looked good again, or that he blew up to being the overweight fat guy we saw compete years later. To the point he even apologized for showing up like that lmao.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

That was the first ufc I didn’t order at home and went to a bar. I bet on fitch and one a couple beers. I lost the house when I took a bunch of bets on shogun and chuck. I went back to ordering the ppvs after that. It was much cheaper.