Rewatch Shogun v Forrest

SuperAlly said:
Not happy with just clown show threads, clown show replies too
Click to expand...
Fear equates to butterflies and adrenaline. When controlled, it's a powerful tool in the hands of a fighter. It creates an enhanced sense of urgency, activates the fight or flight response in a favorable way, designed to aid in survival.

Ultimately, this results in a version of that fighter who's firing on all cylinders.

At that time, without question it was unnerving going up against fighters who had such a terrifying reputation and were considered the best on the planet.

Forrest fought like his life depended on it. He felt every bit of that urgency and used it to advantage.

There's nothing funny about it. You just need to grow up.
 
Mittens said:
I haven't seen that one in ages, and ages but I always thought it was essentially over from the very early flying knee right at Shogun's dome. Rua was just too tough SOB to actually go down like most people would have and the "playing with food" (great way to put it) happened after that with Shogun essentially KO'd on the feet while Jones beat him up until even Shogun could not take it anymore.
Had he gone, and stayed down from the knee, the look of the fight would be quite different than it was due to Rua's 'ardness.
Click to expand...
I think you see he's not that badly hurt by it, he's still pretty active from his back, the next 4 mins are basically Jones shutting down various escape/sub attempts and landing a few elbows but by the time he gets back up you can see he's really gassed, the commentary trys to play it has Jones hurting him but it pretty obviously isnt.

Then you basically have another what 9 mins both Shoguns toughness prolonging the fight but also Jones looking to show off quite a bit rather than looking for a faster finish against an opponent not in the fight anymore. Why I question it as this supreme show of dominance by Jones.

What are the bets Dana threatened to strip the belt if Shogun didnt fight Jones ASAP? I wouldnt be supprised at all, he used that trick to get Sylvia to fight Randy when injuried.
 
Last edited:
moreorless87 said:
I think you see he's not that badly hurt by it, he's still pretty active from his back, the next 4 mins are basically Jones shutting down various escape/sub attempts and landing a few elbows but by the time he gets back up you can see he's really gassed, the commentary trys to play it has Jones hurting him but it pretty obviously isnt.
Click to expand...
Thanks - like I said, the impact and lasting effect of the Knee was just heavily ingrained in my mind - I might actually not have seen the fight again after the live broadcast. Otherwise the memories are very vague, except that Shogun seemed too tough for his own good, trying to hang in there.
 
Mittens said:
Thanks - like I said, the impact and lasting effect of the Knee was just heavily ingrained in my mind - I might actually not have seen the fight again after the live broadcast. Otherwise the memories are very vague, except that Shogun seemed too tough for his own good, trying to hang in there.
Click to expand...
At the time I remember thinking Jones might have caught Shogun with something big on the way up I'd missed towards the end of the first which hurt him but rewatching it I think it looks far more like he's just badly gassed.
 
Mike said:
Always bugged me that Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, yet nobody ever wants to give him any credit. Forrest went into that fight injured too. And for all the talk beforehand about how Forrest has no chin and couldn't hang if it hit the ground, he took Shoguns best shots and kept moving forward. Hit Shogun with some hard shots that seemed to slow him down despite his rep for having no power, and out hustled him on the ground while being patient and taking almost no damage there.

Yes Shogun came in hurt but Griffin also had a good game plan and fought a very smart and tactical fight. He did against Rampage as well.
Click to expand...
I feel that. I'm pretty sure it's recency bias. Anderson embarrassed and made him look like an amateur. Most people remember that and not the dog he used to be.
 
Mike said:
Always bugged me that Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, yet nobody ever wants to give him any credit. Forrest went into that fight injured too. And for all the talk beforehand about how Forrest has no chin and couldn't hang if it hit the ground, he took Shoguns best shots and kept moving forward. Hit Shogun with some hard shots that seemed to slow him down despite his rep for having no power, and out hustled him on the ground while being patient and taking almost no damage there.

Yes Shogun came in hurt but Griffin also had a good game plan and fought a very smart and tactical fight. He did against Rampage as well.
Click to expand...
I was poetic justice.

At the time in the MMA world, there was a deep sense of elitism of Pride > UFC, and the fact that the fighters from TUF were overblown hype jobs who would get demolished once they fought real opponents.
 
EndlessCritic said:
I was poetic justice.

At the time in the MMA world, there was a deep sense of elitism of Pride > UFC, and the fact that the fighters from TUF were overblown hype jobs who would get demolished once they fought real opponents.
Click to expand...
I like pride as much as the next guy it's just so silly. Almost twenty years later and people itt still can't give him credit it's crazy tbh.
 
Mittens said:
I haven't seen that one in ages, and ages but I always thought it was essentially over from the very early flying knee right at Shogun's dome. Rua was just too tough SOB to actually go down like most people would have and the "playing with food" (great way to put it) happened after that with Shogun essentially KO'd on the feet while Jones beat him up until even Shogun could not take it anymore.
Had he gone, and stayed down from the knee, the look of the fight would be quite different than it was due to Rua's 'ardness.
Click to expand...
Shogun was pretty much on auto pilot after that flying knee.
 
As a War shogun guy its always bugged me Forrest never gets the credit he deserves. He beat us that night fair and square, it sucked but what ever it happens.

Forrest as a fighter gets downplayed alot iv noticed. He comes up in the "who over achieved" threads and such. Look at forrest wins, then watch him fight. One of the guys whos good every where. Well rounded enough to throw kicks at rampage, out pace and out volume strike tito the wrestler, and his cardio was damn good.
 
Mike said:
Always bugged me that Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, yet nobody ever wants to give him any credit. Forrest went into that fight injured too. And for all the talk beforehand about how Forrest has no chin and couldn't hang if it hit the ground, he took Shoguns best shots and kept moving forward. Hit Shogun with some hard shots that seemed to slow him down despite his rep for having no power, and out hustled him on the ground while being patient and taking almost no damage there.

Yes Shogun came in hurt but Griffin also had a good game plan and fought a very smart and tactical fight. He did against Rampage as well.
Click to expand...
i swear i didnt even read your post

200.gif
 
Th3Sav4ge said:
As a War shogun guy its always bugged me Forrest never gets the credit he deserves. He beat us that night fair and square, it sucked but what ever it happens.

Forrest as a fighter gets downplayed alot iv noticed. He comes up in the "who over achieved" threads and such. Look at forrest wins, then watch him fight. One of the guys whos good every where. Well rounded enough to throw kicks at rampage, out pace and out volume strike tito the wrestler, and his cardio was damn good.
Click to expand...
It's frustrating because we all grew up watching Rocky and Forrest was that guy for real. You'd think fans would have more appreciation for it. On paper he doesn't appear to have a path to victory against either one of them. Not known for having power. Good but not super elite BJJ. Serviceable but often sloppy striking. Mediocre wrestling and didn't aggressively pursue takedowns often. Against two guys that were absolute killers and could find a finish at any moment, anywhere the fight went.

He had to fight the absolutely perfect fight to win those, and somehow he did. That's commendable to me. Lots and lots of people break mentally in scenarios where victory doesn't seem possible. You could tell Forrest and his team watched the tape and put the time in to FIND a way to win. And I think both guys underestimated him, I know Rampage did.
 
People shit on Forrest here since he finished TUF, you would think he has nothing for anyone reading comments about him. He was giant for LHW at the time, maybe best cardio in the division, BJJ black belt, and decent kicks. Everything he lacked he made up with heart. After he lost the title he really didn't look the same, but we've seen plenty fighters lose the title and every fight after.
 
moreorless87 said:
Rewatching the first fight it is pretty obvious even before cardio becomes a factor that Shogun is in a bad state, he looks incredible slow and immobile even compared to the second fight where he was well past his best.

I think you see the same issues in the 2nd Coleman fight AND The Jones fight, both of which is came from from ACL surgery quickly(18 months for Coleman but that was TWO ACL surgeries). People want to play up the Jones fight as this amazing show of dominance but really its 4 mins of fairly mild top control which has Shogun badly gassed in less than a round and then Jones just plays with his food for another 10 mins.

The ironic thing is I think this ended up fooling Dana and Co quite a bit, the Coleman fight I STRONGLY suspect they watched that and though Shogun was done when they booked him against Chuck trying to get Liddell a big name win to boost him back up only to meet a Shogun in far better form with more time to train post ACL surgery. The same in the Forrest rematch as well, Shogun getting destoryed by Jones the UFC probably felt this was a winnable fight to boost Forrest back up and again it blew up in their face with Shogun coming in better form.
Click to expand...
nah, they didnt really care who wins between chuck and shogun. who ever wins its same same. you have to keep names in the mix.

shogun didnt fight vera because vera was the same rank, they shined him up
 
Ah the Pride vs UFC battle.

It has been largely dormant compared to the days when Pride was active, and those threads were always abundant and ferocious.

That isn't what this is about though. Yes, I thought Shogun was out of sorts during that fight but still give credit to Forrest for performing well.

I'll never forget Dana celebrating like a poor man that had won the lotto after Forrest won. Such a clown.
 
BowserJr said:
It's a real damn shame we never saw prime Shogun in the UFC. Those dam CL injuries robbed us of watching his ballet of violence in the cage and the rematch vs the best/uninjured version of Rampage.

Pride haters like to say he wasn't that good cuz he lost to Forrest in the debut while ignoring the injury which prevented him from training any cardio.

He made a career of fighting 10 min rounds but here you can see he got tired and was flat footed after being on top for a few minutes. He also threw naked strikes and barged in thinking he'd blast thru B league UFC comp



In the rematch while not in his peak but at least without an active acl injury we saw what shogun could do to Forrest. Too bad this wasn't the first fight

Click to expand...

maybe forest was actually a skilled fighter thats why shogun lost to him?
same as fedor losing in america fought better fighters

captain obvious right?
why do you complicate things as always? lmfao

simple as that
 
orca said:
maybe forest was actually a skilled fighter thats why shogun lost to him?
same as fedor losing in america fought better fighters

captain obvious right?
why do you complicate things as always? lmfao

simple as that
Click to expand...

Yep, Fedor went to America to fight and lose to better competition than those scrubs they had in Pride. Guys like Fabricio Werdum and Dan Henderson.
 
Mittens said:
I haven't seen that one in ages, and ages but I always thought it was essentially over from the very early flying knee right at Shogun's dome. Rua was just too tough SOB to actually go down like most people would have and the "playing with food" (great way to put it) happened after that with Shogun essentially KO'd on the feet while Jones beat him up until even Shogun could not take it anymore.
Had he gone, and stayed down from the knee, the look of the fight would be quite different than it was due to Rua's 'ardness.
Click to expand...
your right it may look different
but its inevitable he still loses to jones
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,255,368
Messages
56,707,950
Members
175,367
Latest member
CaveManBpt

Share this page

Back
Top