Shogun is possible LHW Goat you noobs

[KillerIsBack V2]

The guy never got caught for anything in the UFC,and he looked as good as he ever did when he fought Machida.

Not being cought doesn't mean you never did it.. it just means your coaches and the doctor they consult are up to date and crafty...
pride encouraged people to roid up in their contract

 

[pankrat]

Shogun is my favourite fighter of all time probably, but he doesn't beat prime Rumble in his wildest dreams.

Why so sure about that?
Also, what's exactly prime Rumble? We have seen flaws in his game across his career, and I guess a fighter is not ony "primed" when he is in favourable matchups where he shines

 

[HHJ]

Not being cought doesn't mean you never did it.. it just means your coaches and the doctor they consult are up to date and crafty...
pride encouraged people to roid up in their contract

Thes are two diff things you ar talkin about here. We can discuss things we already know there will never be answers from all day.

 

[cmw43]

Shogun is my favorite fighter ever but he got absolutely mauled by the LHW Goat.
When you are outmatched at that point, i think it's not a matter of dickpills anymore

He had his third knee reconstruction after Machida 2 and he's been a plodding brawler ever since.

 

[cmw43]

Sorry bud. But there's a second half to his career. And that counts.

Is Anderson dropping out of MW goat talks with all his losses now?

It shouldn't really erase achievements from earlier in a career.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Thes are two diff things you ar talkin about here. We can discuss things we already know there will never be answers from all day.

It's honestly the most public yet kept secret ever.
cycling is an art. Ask Armstrong he cycled for cycling.
*punch line drum*

 

[HHJ]

Is Anderson dropping out of MW goat talks with all his losses now?

It shouldn't really erase achievements from earlier in a career.

If it goes on long enough,and it has,it does start to tarnish. the guy has fought 7 yrs with one (very disputed) win

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Young Shogun pre-knee surgery was amazing, but when I look at the GOAT I look at the entire career, so I wouldn't put him as the GOAT not even close, but he was the best LHW at one point, prime shogun could compete with anyone!

Is a fighter carrying on well past his prime really that significant? is Andersons career over the past 5-6 years that significant to his legacy? I mean he could just have retired couldnt he ala GSP?

 

[HHJ]

Is a fighter carrying on well past his prime really that significant? is Andersons career over the past 5-6 years that significant to his legacy? I mean he could just have retired couldnt he ala GSP?

It can do the guy any good to go 7 yrs without a win. I think it's significant,but how significant is up to you. Its not just the numbers...its him losing to an inside low kick against Cannonier...and then deciding he wants to continue fighting after that. It takes a bit of shine off what he's built for himself imo. Its not tearing it down but...its puttin dents in it.

 

[Richard Fannin]

Come on, Shogun is the one and only former UFC champ that doesn't have a single hater here...
These kinds of threads breed haters, why would you do that?

... Chuck doesn't have many haters either I guess, but for Mauricio, it's really special how no one has anything bad to say about him.
'member when Joe Rogan was trying to get a rise out of him after the Vera fight, accusing Rua of not giving Vera props, much to his confusion.

Even UFC champs that are above reproach like GSP, Randy Couture or Chuck Liddell have haters, don't tempt fate with thread like that.

Even waaay past his prime, our dear Mauricio gave us plenty of exciting performances and nice finishes. I just hope he learns from his brother Ninja's mistakes, and get out of the game before suffering from CTE; that TKO loss to Paul Craig was painful to watch...
still... always... WAR SHOGUN










Shogun Rua has been one of these very rare fighters who enjoyed 2 primes... the first one in 2005, and then his incredible resurgence in 2010. Newer fans might not realize how insanely hyped "undefeated dominant elusive Machida" was, and how crazy both fights were.

Both of his primes were amazing to watch, but now it's time to hang them up.

I just pray than he doesn't end up taking beatings in Bellator

 

[Richard Fannin]

Then when the fight stands back up its clear Rua is gassed to me although honestly even if you think its only down to Jones hurting him the result is he's essentially out of the fight at that point. The following dominance is really Jones playing with his food for another round and a half, beating down someone who is out of the match not outclassing an opponent.

Indeed, after he hate that nasty flying knee at the start

Shogun was just out of it.
I'm obviously not taking anything away from Jones, it's just that when I see highlights of JJ showing him schooling Maurio post flying knee, when he was all dazed and confused...
"Look at what Jones is doing to the UFC CHAMP! WOW! It's like Shogun is in slow-mow or something!" Well yeah, Jones kneed the fuck out of his chin, it's a miracle he's still standing up...

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Come on, Shogun is the one and only former UFC champ that doesn't have a single hater here...
These kinds of threads breed haters, why would you do that?

... Chuck doesn't have many haters either I guess, but for Mauricio, it's really special how no one has anything bad to say about him.
'member when Joe Rogan was trying to get a rise out of him after the Vera fight, accusing Rua of not giving Vera props, much to his confusion.

Even UFC champs that are above reproach like GSP, Randy Couture or Chuck Liddell have haters, don't tempt fate with thread like that.

Even waaay past his prime, our dear Mauricio gave us plenty of exciting performances and nice finishes. I just hope he learns from his brother Ninja's mistakes, and get out of the game before suffering from CTE; that TKO loss to Paul Craig was painful to watch...
still... always... WAR SHOGUN










Shogun Rua has been one of these very rare fighters who enjoyed 2 primes... the first one in 2005, and then his incredible resurgence in 2010. Newer fans might not realize how insanely hyped "undefeated dominant elusive Machida" was, and how crazy both fights were.

Both of his primes were amazing to watch, but now it's time to hang them up.

I just pray than he doesn't end up taking beatings in Bellator

Its a real shame we didnt see more of that second prime, really it was Chuck and the two Machida fights.

After the 3rd ACL surgery he just didnt have the same mobility anymore which was key to his sucess in those matches.

 

[TerrorTimmy]

Shogun was a beast but i feel like Hendo hurt his legacy in terms of greatness

If you watch the two fights between those guys and somehow have less respect for either one afterwards, you are seriously fucking stupid.

 

[ilovepasta]

LOL

Prime shogun taped to journey man forest griffin

 

[Richard Fannin]

Its a real shame we didnt see more of that second prime, really it was Chuck and the two Machida fights.

In kinda hesitate to maybe push his second prime up to 2011... sure
-he lost to Jones, but he's the (steroid included list) GOAT, and after that flying knee he really wasn't himself in that bout...

-6 months later he avenged his loss to Forrest Griffin in brutal fashion, took less than 2 min. And that was Griffin just after beating Tito & Rich Franklin, and then beating Tito again after the Rua bout. It's not like he was on some insane losing spree...

-1 months later he took part in one of the best brawls ever against Hendo [the official UFC FOTY], which IMO should have been a draw (Hendo 10-9 for the first 3 rounds, then 10-9 and 10-8 for Shogun in the final 2; but the UFC judges almost never give 10-8 rounds, or draws).
Henderson was just fresh of a win over the HW GOAT himself, Fedor, and 2 wins before that against Strikeforce champion Rafael Feijão Calvacante & a rematch against the always game Babalu Sobral, who had just beaten Robbie Lawler.


It was the first time Mauricio wasn't able to avenge one of Murilo's losses even if that Hendo/Ninja decision was bullshit; I'd argue that this one time, Ninja did better than Shogun when facing the same opponent.
(once again, this makes me miss good old Ninja>Shogun , he wasn't very popular as a sherdogger but his takes were never boring ^^)



The next bout, in which Shogun struggled to put Vera away was the one that really made me realize that his second prime was over.
Don't get me wrong, Shogun won all 3 rounds before TKOing Brandon is the 4th, and Vera is a tough veteran, no question about that, he's bigger and taller than Rua (KO'd Frank Mir at HW back in the days).
(and IMO, should have gotten a draw against Randy Couture instead of a unanimous decision loss...)

But in my head, the Shogun who blasted Chuck Liddell and Machida twice, who was so quick on his feet, and upped his boxing skills to compensate for the ban of soccer kicks/stomps in the UFC (which sucked for Chute Boxe guys, Mauricio in particular who was the best & most technical at using these types of strikes) would have make quick work of The Truth


TL;DR: the first Hendo 5 rounds war is one of the factors that "broke" Shogun for good. And that was in 2011. Holy shit, that decade flew by...
Rua took so much damage in this one, it was crazy how he came back...



I had never wished that much for a 6th round ^^ what a crazy, bloody, Rocky-like comeback...





Like in the old days, if a fight oo close to judge, let them go 1 more round... As long as Ken Shamrock isn't in attendance.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

In kinda hesitate to maybe push his second prime up to 2011... sure
-he lost to Jones, but he's the (steroid included list) GOAT, and after that flying knee he really wasn't himself in that bout...

-6 months later he avenged his loss to Forrest Griffin in brutal fashion, took less than 2 min. And that was Griffin just after beating Tito & Rich Franklin, and then beating Tito again after the Rua bout. It's not like he was on some insane losing spree...

-1 months later he took part in one of the best brawls ever against Hendo [the official UFC FOTY], which IMO should have been a draw (Hendo 10-9 for the first 3 rounds, then 10-9 and 10-8 for Shogun in the final 2; but the UFC judges almost never give 10-8 rounds, or draws).
Henderson was just fresh of a win over the HW GOAT himself, Fedor, and 2 wins before that against Strikeforce champion Rafael Feijão Calvacante & a rematch against the always game Babalu Sobral, who had just beaten Robbie Lawler.


It was the first time Mauricio wasn't able to avenge one of Murilo's losses even if that Hendo/Ninja decision was bullshit; I'd argue that this one time, Ninja did better than Shogun when facing the same opponent.
(once again, this makes me miss good old Ninja>Shogun , he wasn't very popular as a sherdogger but his takes were never boring ^^)



The next bout, in which Shogun struggled to put Vera away was the one that really made me realize that his second prime was over.
Don't get me wrong, Shogun won all 3 rounds before TKOing Brandon is the 4th, and Vera is a tough veteran, no question about that, he's bigger and taller than Rua (KO'd Frank Mir at HW back in the days).
(and IMO, should have gotten a draw against Randy Couture instead of a unanimous decision loss...)

But in my head, the Shogun who blasted Chuck Liddell and Machida twice, who was so quick on his feet, and upped his boxing skills to compensate for the ban of soccer kicks/stomps in the UFC (which sucked for Chute Boxe guys, Mauricio in particular who was the best & most technical at using these types of strikes) would have make quick work of The Truth


TL;DR: the first Hendo 5 rounds war is one of the factors that "broke" Shogun for good. And that was in 2011. Holy shit, that decade flew by...
Rua took so much damage in this one, it was crazy how he came back...



I had never wished that much for a 6th round ^^ what a crazy, bloody, Rocky-like comeback...





Like in the old days, if a fight oo close to judge, let them go 1 more round... As long as Ken Shamrock isn't in attendance.

It wasnt just a case of prime/post prime I'd agree. Against Jones I do think it was also partly the layoff effecting his cardio as it did vs Coleman. After that against Forrest/Hendo/Gus he still looked in pretty good form but I think the big difference relative to Chuck and Machida was he never got that mobility back. It was that ability to move rapidly forward and backwards that really made those performances stand out and he had to shift back more to his Pride aggressive striking approach but without the same cardio/mobility and much reduced grappling.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

Sorry bud. But there's a second half to his career. And that counts.

A fighter's whole career counts. That's all history will remember...Wins AND losses. I get that certain fighters were great for a period of time. But don't show me the record of guys with double digit losses and try to tell me they were the greatest fighter ever.

 

[SakurabasEar]

Jones could have been on rocket fuel and it still does not demote his talent and skill. A couple of failed tests for alleged PEDs and cocaine don’t change it.

If it didnt change anything, he wouldn't have bothered taking it. Just look at his fights since he pissed hot the last time. Jon is relagated to point fighting and he's arguably lost twice now.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

Shogun was a beast but i feel like Hendo hurt his legacy in terms of greatness

Hendo hurt his brain. . . and nose.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

If it didnt change anything, he wouldn't have bothered taking it. Just look at his fights since he pissed hot the last time. Jon is relagated to point fighting and he's arguably lost twice now.

Most obviously I think dispute the destroyer rep from the Shogun fight the reality is Jones career has mostly been as a decision/long haul fighter and cardio seems like the most obvious PED advantage.

He's not as confident in his cardio anymore and has to fight at a slower pace.