Sherdog POTWR: Round 2: The Debate

[Hans Gruber]

Hans Leaks

JDragon uses the ignore list (not disqualifying but disturbing that a War Room presidential candidate is so thin skinned that he has to use the ignore list)

Ignoring posters by not responding is fine but actually putting them on an ignore list shows weakness

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/who-is-on-your-ignore-list.3242565/

(If this thread already exists in here - I tried the search function, so I hope it does not - please move or delete.)

Easy question. Who, if any poster at all, is on your ignore list?

I successfully avoided using it until now, but T-Bone's "I'd like to see a WMD attack on Europe" forced me to change that. I added Abezal just for good measure.

RIPWarrior is close to the list, but so far, I can find the funny aspect of his posts considering this is obviously someone's troll account.

I actually visit the War Room to get subjected to opposing and different views, but right now I feel some minimum poster hygiene is important for my own sanity.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Hans Leaks

JDragon is a Marxist and describes a book by Marx as "good"

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/who-is-on-your-ignore-list.3242565/page-43

Try reading Marx. It's good.

You're wrong.

Is his favorite book "The Communist Manifesto"?

 

[Hans Gruber]

Hans Leaks

JDragon thinks it is OK for transgenders to have sex with people without disclosing it. What is he not disclosing to the Sherdog community? He obviously isn't a fan of disclosure.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/s...o-disclose-before-sex.3033033/#post-107471571

don't see the point.

• If you are too drunk or stupid to realize you are about to hump what's physically a man even though you are hetero, you deserve it
• If it's a pre-op male-to-female, I think it's kinda unlikely you don't realize before you put it in, uh?
• If it's post-op and the person is ugly as fuck, and you STILL don't realize it, what the fuck are you doing? You deserve any mental issues it causes you.
• If it's post-op, and you STILL don't realize it because the person is so fucking gorgeous, then what's the actual problem?

 

[lfd0311]

After much deliberation, and quietly following this entire thread, I have decided I will be making an endorsement based in part on answering the following question.

Spoiler

@Jack V Savage
@Amerikuracana-
@MusterX-
@panamaican-
@JDragon
@HomerThompson
@Space
@HereticBD
@lfd0311
@CEROVFC-
@Overpressure
@Palis
@Clippy
@m52nickerson
@snakedafunky-

Question:
Of these options, which (in your opinion, based on historical evidence) best describes Abraham Lincoln?
-Institutionalist focused on preserving the constitution
-Poltical pragmatist focused on navigating currents
-Aggressive political radical
-Racially driven moral crusader
-None of the above (explain)

I believe it is important for the first President of the War Room to be able to demonstrate the ability to analyze history and critically evaluate different approaches to understanding important figures.

I think to some degree he was all of those things. He was a moderate by the standards of the time. He absolutely hated and opposed slavery. He openly opposed the war with Mexico as a Member of the House because he saw it as an American expanionist venture with the objective of illegally adding more territory to slave holding states. Lincoln was completely morally opposed to Slavery, but he was more concerned with the preservation of the Union, and thus the Constitution, than he was with the ending of slavery. He was at the same time just as opposed to the spread of it, at least early in his political career.

He was also very obviously a political pramatist who understood his situation, both prior to the election, and after the war started. You can see this in the numerous pure political appointments he made within the military itself, and with the way the Emancipation Proclamation was issued. Lincoln didn't have a lot of Political friends, even after winning the Presidency. He was always keenly aware of whose head he needed to pat and whose he needed to thump. The upper echelons of the Military were filled early in the war by men who hadn't served a day in the military prior to the war, all of them appointed by Lincoln. He did this to curry favor with people who would otherwise cause him lots of problems. If you know or read anything about the Irish during this time period, much of the actual enlisted ranks of the Union Army was made up at the time by fresh Irish immigrants who were for the most part staunch Democrats. Lincoln worked very hard to secure the good will and personal admiration of Thomas Francis Maher, the General in charge of the Irish Brigade who was himself a Democrat and an Irish Revolutionary who dreamed of forming the Irish into a fighting unit that would learn to fight in the organized, European style in the Civil War, return to Ireland and overthrow the English Government. Lincoln mercilessly exploited and propogandized the links between the Irish history of oppression in England to the history of oppression of the African Slaves in the US, all to keep a massive Democrat population of immigrants fighting and dying against other Democrats on behalf of a Republican President.

You can also see his pragmatism in the way he handled the Emancipation Proclamation. The Proclamation was finalized and presented to the Confederates in September of 1862, it wasn't issued until January of 1863. It was intended as a warning, as a last chance for the Confederates to end this foolishness, come back to the Union and keep their slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation affected only the Confederate States, it didn't affect the slave states that had stayed part of the Union. It was a final warning to either accept, or there will be no resolution other than a destruction of your way of life, of total war until one side or the other is finished.

Lastly, I think Lincoln was a bit of a private Political Radical. I think he honestly felt the things that he said, that he believed that if he could preserve the Union by keeping Slavery here and ending it there, that he would. I think he knew in his heart that there was no way that would ever work, and that war at some level was going to be neccessary to end the system as it currently stood. While I don't believe he wanted that, I believe he accepted that and prepared for it even while trying to do his best to prevent it. That in my mind is further proof of his pragmatism.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Hans Leaks

Here is JDragon's "Definitive" Refugee Thread that went a whopping 2 and a half pages

He will abondon fellow Sherdoggers like he abandoned this "definitive" thread

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-refugee-discussion-v-1-0.3058807/

Short excerpts:

Considering many refugee threads have been popping up recently, I thought I'd open a definite one. Maybe we can try to contain the discussion here.

This is going to become a real test for the European Union and a real test for Angela Merkel. There has been a resurgence of radical right-wing politics in most European states even before the onset of the current refugee crisis, so many of the geographically "well-situated" countries try not to be too helpful with the refugee issue. .

 

[JDragon]

Hans Leaks

JDragon uses the ignore list (not disqualifying but disturbing that a War Room presidential candidate is so thin skinned that he has to use the ignore list)

Ignoring posters by not responding is fine but actually putting them on an ignore list shows weakness

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/who-is-on-your-ignore-list.3242565/

Yeah I did. I removed the remaining poster (@Abezal) from my list months ago though.

 

[Jack V Savage]

None of the above.

Lincoln was a man who believed that slavery was morally wrong. However, he prioritized the stability of the nation over that issue.

People who imply that he wasn't staunchly against slavery are wrong. He was. But he wasn't going to risk the nation over it. He would have fought for slavery's abolition through the law and we have no idea if he would have had success.The South took that decision out of his hands.

The biggest distinction between Lincoln and your traditional abolitionist is that Lincoln believed that the Constitution protected the rights of existing slave owners to own slaves and so the government couldn't just free those slaves from their masters. Abolitionists felt that the government should do exactly that - abolish the property interest that masters had in slaves.

In some ways, Lincoln was all of the above and yet none of them.

Yeah, I'd pretty much just say that, though I think that "political pragmatist" applies to that. I don't claim any special insight into Lincoln's mind or anything, though. Sorry to disappoint, but honesty is more important than pandering.

 

[panamaican]

I know we have talked about this before, so does the universal income wipe out welfare,section 8 housing, food stamps, etc? And Im going to be Honest, giving people a universal income who make $75,000 in the south is probably a bad idea. I live in memphis and with overtime make just shy of that by myself. my wife went prn and recently stopped working all together. We have plenty of money for a nice house, 3 kids, cars, vacations, etc. I guess if you are gonna give it to everyone then you would have to include the south at that income level because I guess trying to make it region/specific would be to difficult or would maybe cause an increase in people moving to areas of higher pay.

I see you mentioned centralizing schooling, what about school choice?

The free university, is there any provision for every tom dick and harry that is a d+ student who wants to go to college, getting in wasting their time and our money? Is there any stipulation on paybacks if you fail?

What would you do tax wise? Is it really fair that 47% of people get to pay no federal income taxes (yes i know they may pay state or local/sales/property tax). Shouldn't everyone have to contribute something?

What would you do to try to heal the divide between the cops and certain communities? Anythign that could be done on the federal end without over reaching new laws/rules or cost?

Yes, it would wipe out all of the existing forms of welfare including section 8, food stamps, etc. I don't think there's a point in drawing a distinction between the south and elsewhere.

Spoiler

My opinion is that the market will clear up those issues over time. Also since the income is based on phasing out as income rises, by the time a family reaches $75k, they'll be receiving so little that it's not going to be a concern.

What about school choice?

Spoiler

It won't be necessary unless someone wants to pay for private school. If the fed is centralizing k-12 education then we won't see the district to district funding disparities that ultimately drive the need for school choice. Once we can be sure that every school district is receiving equal funding (which eliminates forum shopping for teachers and unequal facilities based on zip codes) then it's no longer the government's responsibility to ensure that those communities get the most out of their neighborhood schools. This is an important point because there is a legitimate issue with how funding disparities drives qualified teachers to seek the best paying jobs leaving the poorest students with the least qualified/least experienced instructors. Teachers will still change districts but it won't be because of pay discrepancies between poor and rich students.

People think that free college equates to automatic admission. It doesn't, they are completely separate points.

Spoiler

Free college just means no tuition IF YOU EARN ADMISSION. This actually raises the quality of the public universities. It makes admission more competitive and more selective. You won't have D students in public universities because all of the A and B students will grab all of the seats to avoid the expense of private universities.

I wouldn't do anything about the taxes. Of course it's fair that some people pay no income tax.

Spoiler

The absurdity of that question falls squately in the crosshairs of a progressive taxation plan. Is it fair that some people pay 33% and others only pay 15%? Is it fair that some people have deductions and some people don't? All the same fundamental question.

So, no, I don't expect everyone to pay something. We can't be childish or vindictive when it comes to funding a great society and that means we don't get bogged down in trying to squeeze the poor for more money just to make some nebulous point. What we do is create opportunities for the poor to enter into the tax paying portion of the tax code. It's absurd to think that taxing poor people, just to make sure their paying something, actually accomplishes anything except preserving their poverty. Which shouldn't be our goal.

If you want to heal the divide between the cops and the communities, we need to stop sugar coating the race related themes we bring to these conversations (including the coded language that people use both knowingly and unknowingly).

Spoiler

People need to stop acting as if this divide just arose from malfeasance within those communities and isn't the product of decades of cyclical abuse from the government, enforced by the cops, coupled with poverty and garnished with decades of disenfranchisement.

There's no role for the fed in that. The fed can't stop people from assuming that every black person is less intelligent or prone to violence or only successful because of PC-ness. People who hold those positions are the problem. Whether they are politicians, police, or deli owners. The government can't change attitudes and until those attitudes reduce you can't expect the people who are focus of those attitudes to act as if everything is hunky dory. If I think you hate me or think I'm stupid or whatever, you can't expect me to accept your perspective on my life.

I have this conversation with my wife frequently. She dislikes certain clients of mine. Fine. Then she acts surprised when they say "Panamaican, I don't think your wife likes me." As I tell my wife - if you think poorly of someone, you telegraph it in tons of subtle ways and it's ignorant to think that they won't pick up on it and respond. Society needs to learn this lesson.[/spoiler]

 

[lfd0311]

Hans Leaks

Here is JDragon's "Definitive" Refugee Thread that went a whopping 2 and a half pages

He will abondon fellow Sherdoggers like he abandoned this "definitive" thread

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/the-refugee-discussion-v-1-0.3058807/

Short excerpts:

@Jack V Savage is also a big fan of the ignore list. He talks about "not talking about who is on his ignore list" but has name dropped at least one person in this thread alone.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Hans Leaks

JDragon uses the ignore list (not disqualifying but disturbing that a War Room presidential candidate is so thin skinned that he has to use the ignore list)

Ignoring posters by not responding is fine but actually putting them on an ignore list shows weakness

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/who-is-on-your-ignore-list.3242565/

Fuck all that "thin skinned" bullshit.
The ignore function exists for the good reason that mods can't catch and execute every troll and some behavior is so close to the line that it can't be actioned.
The WR President doesn't have to listen to every shitbag that wants to post disruptive nonsense, and there are a few posters whose sole existence revolves around being line steppers.
This is just an excuse to cry from people that are too thin skinned to accept that their stupid asses earned them a spot on ignore lists.

 

[Jack V Savage]

@Jack V Savage is also a big fan of the ignore list. He talks about "not talking about who is on his ignore list" but has name dropped at least one person in this thread alone.

Yeah, it makes the group a lot more readable. I think soda introduced me to it (responding to my polite requests to stop flooding threads with pictures by telling me to ignore him).

Fuck all that "thin skinned" bullshit.
The ignore function exists for the good reason that mods can't catch and execute every troll and some behavior is so close to the line that it can't be actioned.
The WR President doesn't have to listen to every shitbag that wants to post disruptive nonsense, and there are a few posters whose sole existence revolves around being line steppers.
This is just an excuse to cry from people that are too thin skinned to accept that their stupid asses earned them a spot on ignore lists.

Invariably, ignored trolls claim that their truth is just too much for people to handle, and invariably they are unable to explain why obviously better posters with the exact same views as them are not ignored. If it were about what trolls claim it's about, wouldn't ehtheist, Pan, Rex, wai, etc. be the ones being ignored?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Yeah, it makes the group a lot more readable. I think soda introduced me to it (responding to my polite requests to stop flooding threads with pictures by telling me to ignore him).



Invariably, ignored trolls claim that their truth is just too much for people to handle, and invariably they are unable to explain why obviously better posters with the exact same views as them are not ignored.

"You just don't agree with my views! "
... Nope, that ain't it. Maybe it's got something to do with the way you post.
Funny to watch them try to make it into a qualification that whomever wins has to listen to their mindless idiocy.
Who'd want to "win" that, ffs

 

[Hans Gruber]

Fuck all that "thin skinned" bullshit.
The ignore function exists for the good reason that mods can't catch and execute every troll and some behavior is so close to the line that it can't be actioned.
The WR President doesn't have to listen to every shitbag that wants to post disruptive nonsense, and there are a few posters whose sole existence revolves around being line steppers.
This is just an excuse to cry from people that are too thin skinned to accept that their stupid asses earned them a spot on ignore lists.

Overpressure also confirms use of the ignore list.

Who knew Vulcans were so thin skinned?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Overpressure also confirms use of the ignore list.

Who knew Vulcans were so thin skinned?

1.It's an avatar not a wanna be thing, I've never tried to use it as a gimmick, though a lot of people *like yourself, who think they're clever * go to that well over and over as if it were funny the first ten times they mentioned it.
2. I've never made any attempt to hide my use of the function. In fact I announce when someone's going onto it so others can see the posting style that earned it.
In fact I announce it, then usually wait another post or two with the individual in question to see if I'm wrong.
People who accuse others of being a , for example : what possible use could come from listening to what they have to say, about anything?

The iglist is a good function and I absolutely advocate its use.

 

[Gandhi]

Breaking News from Charlotte Police department. According to Fox News @Palis has been arrested in a Chuck E. Cheese Bathroom with two minors present. @Dr J currently fleeing the state.

Cliffs from the link: Palis arrested in Chuck E. Cheese's boys-room. With two minors. Campaign basically over now. Check Fox NEWS for more information.

Please clcik the official Fox News website for the report:
http://nation.foxnews.com.0w7z.clonezone.link/palisarrested

Tweet from the Charlotte PD.

I know we had our differences but I just hope you guys get better. Get well soon.

Wow this just a new level LOL

 

[Gandhi]

1.It's an avatar not a wanna be thing, I've never tried to use it as a gimmick, though a lot of people *like yourself, who think they're clever * go to that well over and over as if it were funny the first ten times they mentioned it.
2. I've never made any attempt to hide my use of the function. In fact I announce when someone's going onto it so others can see the posting style that earned it.
In fact I announce it, then usually wait another post or two with the individual in question to see if I'm wrong.
People who accuse others of being a , for example : what possible use could come from listening to what they have to say, about anything?

The iglist is a good function and I absolutely advocate its use.

I is confused since you are having this conversation with Hans (although I guess going ped crazy in this thread is ok as it is more of a lark thread).

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I is confused since you are having this conversation with Hans (although I guess going ped crazy in this thread is ok as it is more of a lark thread).

Why would you be confused by my response to Hans?

 

[Hans Gruber]

1.It's an avatar not a wanna be thing, I've never tried to use it as a gimmick, though a lot of people *like yourself, who think they're clever * go to that well over and over as if it were funny the first ten times they mentioned it.
2. I've never made any attempt to hide my use of the function. In fact I announce when someone's going onto it so others can see the posting style that earned it.
In fact I announce it, then usually wait another post or two with the individual in question to see if I'm wrong.
People who accuse others of being a , for example : what possible use could come from listening to what they have to say, about anything?

The iglist is a good function and I absolutely advocate its use.

Like Hans Leaks brought up weeks ago ....any mention of Vulcans and Overpressured explodes. Is this kind of temperament befitting of a War Room president? That is for you to decide folks.

Overpressured...remember when the Hillary camp tried to set Trump off by calling him Donald, mentioning his dad's money, questioning his business savy etc?

Have you learned nothing from the woman that you enthusiastically voted for (and ended up on the wrong side of history as a result)

 

[Lead]

8 hours remain

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Like Hans Leaks brought up weeks ago ....any mention of Vulcans and Overpressure explodes. Is this kind of temperament befitting of a War Room president? That is for you to decide folks.

The Hillary camp tried to set Trump off by calling him Donald, mentioning his dad's money, questioning his business savy etc. Have you learned nothing from the woman that you enthusiastically voted for (and ended up on the wrong side of history as a result)

"Explodes".
Boom