Shakur Stevenson vs Oscar Valdez April.30th ESPN

[Mr2urbo]

Valdez shouldve lost to ROBson. Was one of the biggest robberies of the year. His win over Berchelt has already aged horribly and its been a year barely <Lmaoo>. Its obvious Berchelt is just shot.

Shakur decision from -150 to -188 is amazing value. Id be shocked if he stopped Valdez as his price there is inflated IMO from beating a favorable and overrated Herring.

The Berchelt win will always be suspect imo

 

[JayE]

Bro, he boxed Valdez up but he didn't hurt him once. Even the knockdown was getting a glove on Valdez when he threw himself into the ropes with a lunging hook, which he was doing all night. That's technically a knockdown but there was no damage.

Still pillowfisted and you know it. Anyone with power who lands that many clean punches is stopping the guy and Shakur didn't come close.

I don't think anyone has ever called Stevenson a puncher, but what are you even arguing? You thought Valdez would walk through his shots and rough him up and Valdez was clearly not willing to do that because he was consistently deterred. You got it wrong, like we all consistently do. Move on.

 

[Flboycanscrap2]

I don't think anyone has ever called Stevenson a puncher, but what are you even arguing? You thought Valdez would walk through his shots and rough him up and Valdez was clearly not willing to do that because he was consistently deterred. You got it wrong, like we all consistently do. Move on.

What are talking about? I already owned being wrong. I didn't say he'd walk Shakur down, I thought Oscar was a good enough boxer to slip inside off the jab and work the body b4 going upstairs late not to mention use his power effectively. At the same time i didn't think Shakur had the legs to keep moving well across 12 when pressured. Instead Oscar was content to high guard and try to close the distance with lunging off balanced hooks and he got boxed up but he wasn't hurt ever.

Believe it or not, people on this thread have claimed Shakur as having pop and enough pop to stop Oscar which never came close to happening

 

[David Street]

Post fight press conference turn to family brawl with MGM security. Shakur Stevenson brought large family to watch him fight and their brawl with security has him leaving in the middle of a question...

 

[Metatron]

Post fight press conference turn to family brawl with MGM security. Shakur Stevenson brought large family to watch him fight and their brawl with security has him leaving in the middle of a question...

I think it was due to his mother. The security didn't let her in. I guess they didn't know who she was which led to her arguing with them,

 

[David Street]

I think it was due to his mother. The security didn't let her in. I guess they didn't know who she was which led to her arguing with them,

The video has Bob Arum confused the one guy told Arum he thinks it's his mother, then the cameras just show his whole clan yelling and pushing security until they got them behind the glass doors. An army security, with that one lady security officer saying he is the fighter.

 

[randomg1t]

Did you not watch the fight? It was borderline cuffing. Do you not understand momentum? The uppercut hit Valdez's gloves, he fell over from being off balance.

Still a knockdown based on the rules which I'm not disputing you idiot. He just wasn't hurt and showed as much for the rest of the round.

to watch this fight and claim that stevenson is pillow fisted and could never hurt valdez means you're either dense as fuck or have no clue what you're watching.

the knockdown wasn't a technicality. it was legit, it just doesn't fit with your narrative that shakur has no power. incidentally, valdez, for all his power, did nothing to faze stevenson, even when he landed cleanly.

you want to know the amount of times valdez was hit with something he didn't enjoy? count every time he banged his gloves together after a stevenson combination. he was doing it all night.

but i'm sure valdez decided to spend 70% of the fight fighting peekaboo style because he had no respect for stevenson's power.

 

[Flboycanscrap2]

to watch this fight and claim that stevenson is pillow fisted and could never hurt valdez means you're either dense as fuck or have no clue what you're watching.

the knockdown wasn't a technicality. it was legit, it just doesn't fit with your narrative that shakur has no power. incidentally, valdez, for all his power, did nothing to faze stevenson, even when he landed cleanly.

you want to know the amount of times valdez was hit with something he didn't enjoy? count every time he banged his gloves together after a stevenson combination. he was doing it all night.

but i'm sure valdez decided to spend 70% of the fight fighting peekaboo style because he had no respect for stevenson's power.

You have never been in the ring before and felt the different stages of the spectrum of hurt from taking punches, if you have you wouldn't be talking like this. You are trying to equate being generally banged up with being rocked or hurt. That narrative is completely false no matter how much you want to force it into existence. Obviously professional boxers respect their opponents power to some degree, doesn't mean they are worried about being knocked out. No one wants to take unnecessary damage, so they fight at least semi-responsibly. I'm sure you want Campbell v Peden or Mora v Jacobs style disrespect to qualify as believing your opponent can't punch in any regard but that's not how it works. Same goes for flash or technical knockdowns vs a knockdown where someone is legitimately stunned and dealing with some level of concussion. You've been around for a long time and shouldn't be spreading this fanboy nonsense.

Shakur is not a puncher by any stretch full stop. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. He will not be cleanly stopping any championship level opponent, especially when he evidently moves up to lightweight. His natural weight class power is less than Floyd's at Junior Middleweight.

 

[randomg1t]

You have never been in the ring before and felt the different stages of the spectrum of hurt from taking punches, if you have you wouldn't be talking like this. You are trying to equate being generally banged up with being rocked or hurt. That narrative is completely false no matter how much you want to force it into existence. Obviously professional boxers respect their opponents power to some degree, doesn't mean they are worried about being knocked out. No one wants to take unnecessary damage, so they fight at least semi-responsibly. I'm sure you want Campbell v Peden or Mora v Jacobs style disrespect to qualify as believing your opponent can't punch in any regard but that's not how it works. Same goes for flash or technical knockdowns vs a knockdown where someone is legitimately stunned and dealing with some level of concussion. You've been around for a long time and shouldn't be spreading this fanboy nonsense.

Shakur is not a puncher by any stretch full stop. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. He will not be cleanly stopping any championship level opponent, especially when he evidently moves up to lightweight. His natural weight class power is less than Floyd's at Junior Middleweight.

no one ever claimed stevenson was going to KO valdez cleanly, or that he's walking around knocking people out with one shot.

someone claimed he was pillow fisted and couldn't hurt anyone before the fight, and is now still claiming it despite stevenson dropping his opponent, busting him up, and turning him into a punching bag for large stretches of the fight. valdez is a pitbull, he will walk you down and fuck you up if you don't give him a reason not to. and he was given plenty of reason not to do that. i have a hard time believing it's because he's ticklish.

 

[Flboycanscrap2]

no one ever claimed stevenson was going to KO valdez cleanly, or that he's walking around knocking people out with one shot.

someone claimed he was pillow fisted and couldn't hurt anyone before the fight, and is now still claiming it despite stevenson dropping his opponent, busting him up, and turning him into a punching bag for large stretches of the fight. valdez is a pitbull, he will walk you down and fuck you up if you don't give him a reason not to. and he was given plenty of reason not to do that. i have a hard time believing it's because he's ticklish.

I never claimed Valdez as being a pitbull and walking him down. Don't put words in my mouth, liar. Go read any of my comments. I made it clear that I thought at the time that Valdez could box with Shakur enough to threaten him with his power.

Shakur is still pillowfisted. Being pillowfisted doesn't prevent a fighter from winning because boxing isn't all about power. I don't understand why I have to explain this to you. How many examples do I have to bring up? Does Sweet Pea ring a bell?

Are you insane? Do you really think hurting someone is the only way to stop someone from walking you down? Are you pretending that all boxing skills don't exist, that it is all power?

You invalidate yourself.

Shakur maintained distance with jabs, body crosses, and footwork. Are you blind?

Please get in the ring and feel what it is like to be controlled without actually sustaining damage or getting rocked so you can know first hand what happened to Valdez.

 

[randomg1t]

I never claimed Valdez as being a pitbull and walking him down. Don't put words in my mouth, liar. Go read any of my comments. I made it clear that I thought at the time that Valdez could box with Shakur enough to threaten him with his power.

i said he's a pitbull. you need to learn how to read, amigo.

Shakur is still pillowfisted. Being pillowfisted doesn't prevent a fighter from winning because boxing isn't all about power. I don't understand why I have to explain this to you. How many examples do I have to bring up? Does Sweet Pea ring a bell?

pillow fisted guys don't drop their opponent and make them shell up for 2 minutes in every round. not when their opponent's style is literally to pressure and throw bombs all night.

Are you insane? Do you really think hurting someone is the only way to stop someone from walking you down? Are you pretending that all boxing skills don't exist, that it is all power?

You invalidate yourself.

Shakur maintained distance with jabs, body crosses, and footwork. Are you blind?

Please get in the ring and feel what it is like to be controlled without actually sustaining damage or getting rocked so you can know first hand what happened to Valdez.

sigh.

 

[Flboycanscrap2]

i said he's a pitbull. you need to learn how to read, amigo.


pillow fisted guys don't drop their opponent and make them shell up for 2 minutes in every round. not when their opponent's style is literally to pressure and throw bombs all night.


sigh.

Feigning superiority will get you no where. You have to have a good argument, and consistently in this back and forth you make no argument. You just try to say things will no reasoning at all.

You want to claim that there is no nuance to knockdowns, that is categorically false.

You are blinded by your own arrogance and I feel sorry for you that you cannot even hope to be intellectually honest.

 

[randomg1t]

Feigning superiority will get you no where. You have to have a good argument, and consistently in this back and forth you make no argument. You just try to say things will no reasoning at all.

You want to claim that there is no nuance to knockdowns, that is categorically false.

You are blinded by your own arrogance and I feel sorry for you that you cannot even hope to be intellectually honest.

my argument is that when you punch someone really hard, they cover up and stop moving forward. if you punch them a lot, they eventually bruise up. if you punch them hard enough, they fall to the ground.

stevenson made valdez shell up for minutes, he busted his face up, and he dropped him.

your arguments to counter that are that valdez fell by himself and shakur happened to be touching him at the time, that valdez shelled up for no reason, and that shakur can't punch because you say so.

does that sum it up, or am i being intellectually dishonest?

 

[Flboycanscrap2]

my argument is that when you punch someone really hard, they cover up and stop moving forward. if you punch them a lot, they eventually bruise up. if you punch them hard enough, they fall to the ground.

stevenson made valdez shell up for minutes, he busted his face up, and he dropped him.

your arguments to counter that are that valdez fell by himself and shakur happened to be touching him at the time, that valdez shelled up for no reason, and that shakur can't punch because you say so.

does that sum it up, or am i being intellectually dishonest?

So you've never been punched before? That's not how it works at all. You can bruise and mark up while receiving no concussive damage. You can cover up from pain, instinct, or muscle memory while receiving no concussive damage. You can be moving through space under hard acceleration and be hit so you fall over while receiving no concussive damage.

All these things happened in this fight.

Shakur's record shows he can't punch. He has few knockouts and even knockdowns in fights against people of contender or championship quality. He literally landed 100s of flush punches on Jamel Herring and hardly fazed him while never scoring a knockdown.

You obviously don't follow Shakur's career closely and your attempt to strawman my arguments is foolhardly.

In short, you just don't what you are talking about while having no excuse to be that way considering your time on this platform and likely watching combat sports.

 

[randomg1t]

So you've never been punched before? That's not how it works at all. You can bruise and mark up while receiving no concussive damage. You can cover up from pain, instinct, or muscle memory while receiving no concussive damage. You can be moving through space under hard acceleration and be hit so you fall over while receiving no concussive damage.

All these things happened in this fight.

Shakur's record shows he can't punch. He has few knockouts and even knockdowns in fights against people of contender or championship quality. He literally landed 100s of flush punches on Jamel Herring and hardly fazed him while never scoring a knockdown.

You obviously don't follow Shakur's career closely and your attempt to strawman my arguments is foolhardly.

In short, you just don't what you are talking about while having no excuse to be that way considering your time on this platform and likely watching combat sports.

well then, if the only options are concussing someone or being pillow fisted, then i have to concede that shakur was pillow fisted in this fight.

not the definition i'd go with, though, but to each their own.

 

[Cariñito]

Valdez is a natural Featherweight. And besides that upset against Berchelt, which now doesnt seem as impressive since Berchelt looks like complete shit, his 130 run hasn't been very good. Got dropped by Adam Lopez in the 2nd rd who was a last minute replacement, and won the fight on a stoppage that shouldnt have been stopped in a very close fight, beats Jayson Velez, the Berchelt fight, and the Robson fight were he didnt look so good.
Valdez best was at 126, and even there he was getting dropped by lesser comp and smaller guys.
The Stevenson knocked down was more of a balance issue, I'm pretty sure the shot landed on his glove and wasnt even clean. Having said that, 130 is one of the weakest classes at the moment, and I dont see someone like Shakur running through 135 like other ppl claimed. His size is probably a natural 135lb but do we really think he beats a guy like Tank?

 

[Flboycanscrap2]

well then, if the only options are concussing someone or being pillow fisted, then i have to concede that shakur was pillow fisted in this fight.

not the definition i'd go with, though, but to each their own.

I specifically mentioned a spectrum, especially as it relates to world level competition, but if you want that type of simplification so be it.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

to watch this fight and claim that stevenson is pillow fisted and could never hurt valdez means you're either dense as fuck or have no clue what you're watching.

the knockdown wasn't a technicality. it was legit, it just doesn't fit with your narrative that shakur has no power. incidentally, valdez, for all his power, did nothing to faze stevenson, even when he landed cleanly.

you want to know the amount of times valdez was hit with something he didn't enjoy? count every time he banged his gloves together after a stevenson combination. he was doing it all night.

but i'm sure valdez decided to spend 70% of the fight fighting peekaboo style because he had no respect for stevenson's power.

Not only did he drop him when Valdez fell face first into the ropes that held him up he dropped him when he turned around too.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

Valdez is a natural Featherweight. And besides that upset against Berchelt, which now doesnt seem as impressive since Berchelt looks like complete shit, his 130 run hasn't been very good. Got dropped by Adam Lopez in the 2nd rd who was a last minute replacement, and won the fight on a stoppage that shouldnt have been stopped in a very close fight, beats Jayson Velez, the Berchelt fight, and the Robson fight were he didnt look so good.
Valdez best was at 126, and even there he was getting dropped by lesser comp and smaller guys.
The Stevenson knocked down was more of a balance issue, I'm pretty sure the shot landed on his glove and wasnt even clean. Having said that, 130 is one of the weakest classes at the moment, and I dont see someone like Shakur running through 135 like other ppl claimed. His size is probably a natural 135lb but do we really think he beats a guy like Tank?

You think Garcia beats Tank, but for Shakur its laughable????
Huh?

 

[Doctor Grudge]

So you've never been punched before? That's not how it works at all. You can bruise and mark up while receiving no concussive damage. You can cover up from pain, instinct, or muscle memory while receiving no concussive damage. You can be moving through space under hard acceleration and be hit so you fall over while receiving no concussive damage.

All these things happened in this fight.

Shakur's record shows he can't punch. He has few knockouts and even knockdowns in fights against people of contender or championship quality. He literally landed 100s of flush punches on Jamel Herring and hardly fazed him while never scoring a knockdown.

You obviously don't follow Shakur's career closely and your attempt to strawman my arguments is foolhardly.

In short, you just don't what you are talking about while having no excuse to be that way considering your time on this platform and likely watching combat sports.

Your standard of what is considered a "hard" punch is just different. You're using the word hurt's other meaning, ie getting rocked. Some context that's absolutely fine.

But you're basically saying if a fighter does not cause concussive trauma then they have not "hurt "the other fighter. If you mean hurt as in rocked, then yes. If you mean physically damaging then I would disagree.

There is a thing called a "stinging" punch. You can hurt someone by mauling their face, even if it does not cause concussive trauma it would certainly slow the guy down physically (not just stopping them in their tracks with momentum, but make them literally not as strong and fast as before) and sometimes a guy can just go down from that.


Valdez was like a punching bag in the later rounds, even with Shakur cruising so obviously Valdez was effected in some way. This would infer that Shakur does have some power, as Valdez was too damaged to throw back in any meaningful way.

He wasn't getting out-pointed with tip tap shots, those punches had plenty of pepper on them and made notable difference in how Valdez body could move. That seems like damage to me.

Using your standard, a guy who gets hit by body blows and slows down considerably in the later rounds cannot be hurt because he was never downed by a liver shot.