Seoi Nage

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Manatee, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. Manatee

    Manatee Blue Belt

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    All I have to say is, ARGH. It's a great throw but sometimes the guy just stiff arms you and hunches over so you can't get in. Real defensive like. I can normally nail it if someone doesn't play real defensively. I was looking at how Koga breaks his Ippon-Seoi Nage down and it seems to alleviate someone who likes to fight really defensively. Here's a video of Koga showing how he does it.

    YouTube - KOGA

    Anyone have any recommendations on how I can finish this throw? What sort of techniques do you use to set it up, when do you strike? I mostly do a left side ippon seoi nage, I don't drop. Any tips would be helpful.
     
  2. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    not one of my go to throws at all

    the only time I really use it is when I fake ippon seo entry to get a osoto-gari and jsut stumble upon the opportunity to finish the ip-seo

    I guesss mine is a seo-otoshi thou

    Ippon Seo with a lapel grip can really suprise some people

    Judo chop the arm who is holding your lapel :) and jsut turn in, the grip he is stiff arm you with on the sleeve side won't help him
     
  3. KenTheWalrus

    KenTheWalrus Blue Belt

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    I'm not sure where your problem is at. To me, a stiff arm is a gift for me to use ippon seoi. Hunching over can also help with the throw since they are already off balanced a little, but if they are too far over to get your hips in then the over the back grip is money from there.

    How are you gripping for your entry that the stiff arm is preventing you? Is it a double stiff arm?

    Break one of the double stiff arms. I usually pop the arm up since they generally have a high lapel grip when they double stiff arm. I aim at the wrist or the elbow when I pop the arm up. With my other hand I already have an established grip at the arm pit. When I turn in I use my body for the torque to get kuzushi instead of just pulling with my arm. By the time I've finished dropping my base and fully turning they are already loaded and all I have to do is turn them over.

    You can also roll your shoulder back so that the stiff arm goes over your shoulder. I do this sometimes to close the distance. The bad part is that uke's arm sometimes is too high for a "safe" seoi and leaves an opening for hadaka jime. To counter this I grip at the elbow with my same side hand and pull the elbow down into the ippon/bicep grip with the other arm as I turn in. This grip setup is slower than the one I described above and lower percentage for me (as far as getting the ippon).

    I hope some of that made sense. -ken
     
  4. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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    Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. If it doesnt work for you, then move on to another throw.

    You have to find out what throws work for you and what throws don't.

    ISN doesn't work for everyone - especially taller on shorter.

    I prefer a drop version. Even standing I prefer a left version off a right-lapel grip and then it works best when they are taller and reaching for an over-the-top or high-lapel grip.

    Breaking balance is most important too. Usually beginners sit WAY too far back on their heels on this one.

    Still, you cannot FORCE a throw in any situation. If they are stiff-arming, then ISN with a standard 2-hands-on grip probably just won't work, (unless you are Koga).
     
  5. idahofireman

    idahofireman Banned Banned

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    A bad ippon seoi nage lost me the semis at the pan ams. It has been mothballed until I can really work on it.
     
  6. Kyuktooki

    Kyuktooki Blue Belt

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    A really bad seoi nage cost me the ligament in my right shoulder. Why would anyone have me sparring with a third degree Judo black belt anyway?
     
  7. damit2hell

    damit2hell Guest

    like Austin Power's judo chop?
     
  8. POedBoy

    POedBoy Yellow Belt

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    Urgh...sounds bad. Were you the uke or tori?

    I really really want to get ippon seoi down. ( Whenever I think of judo, the image of someone doing a seoi nage comes to mind. )

    But so far, no luck. In randori, I just can't get enough explosiveness to get the kuzushi and/or break any grips my partner has on me.

    Come to think of it, I seem to be relying more on ashi waza, and the occasional sloppy sutemi. I don't have much success with hip or shoulder throws.
     
  9. beatnick

    beatnick White Belt

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    To me the footwork was the most important, the instep and knees bent, the head movement and toes pointing to the throwing direction, feets close to each other, grabbing the arm/lapel as it was the fortune of the century, l am about to explode. Oh man...:redface::icon_chee

    I like the standing ISN but a very deep one so you can get up in the finishing moment for extra momentum.
     
  10. Nickynoneck

    Nickynoneck Purple Belt

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    Better find a way to get out of that botched seio i suggest drilling a kouchi setemi/makkikomi or kouchi gari cuz if your not hitting it you might as well use it as a fake .

    one day you;ll hit it it will be awesome.
     
  11. Wolfwood

    Wolfwood Banned Banned

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    if you guys wanted to try ssome wrestling terminoloy along side the judo you'd probaly get more help
     
  12. Darkslide632

    Darkslide632 Brown Belt

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    If the guy is stiff arming you, that implies that he has a grip from which to stiff arm you with. You need to dominate the gripping situation. Break his grip, take your grip and throw him.

    The reality, however, is that not all throws work in all situations. In my Judo class you will OFTEN hear "Uke needs to step like this... No, step here, like this." which SOUNDS like something you would hear in a bad karate class "Punch me. No, not like that, punch me like this." What the situation REALLY is, is that when uke moves a certain way, I attack with a certain throw. If he moves in a way that does not compliment that throw, then I just use a different throw - one that IS complimented by the way uke is moving. Unfortunately if you're working on seoi nage and uke is moving in a way that compliments tani otoshi, you can't just switch and start practicing tani otoshi.

    Seoi nage is a throw that requires you to get close to your uke. If they have a grip and they are stiff arming you, then it is not time to throw seoi nage. Move AROUND the stiff arms instead of trying to move through them. Use tai otoshi, sasae tsurikomi ashi, hiza guruma, Sode tsurikomi goshi, etc instead.

    Judo is not a ham-fisted art. You don't walk in and try to force your throw onto your opponent. In fact, if ANYTHING, your opponent will tell you what throw to use to throw them.
     
  13. Yozigi

    Yozigi ChulCheck

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    First of all start doing seoi-nage from the lapel-grip if you aren't already doing so. The only people I know that have real success with the old-school sleeve-grip are high level competitors that are seoi-nage specialists anyway. With the lapel-grip you have much more control over the uke's upper body. So if you're trying to do seoi-nage to the left you take a left kumi-kata with your left arm going over the uke's right arm. Being kind of sideways to the uke doesn't matter, neither does it if the uke stiffens his/her arm since as long as your arm's on top you're the one in control. Then there's of course the double-lapel grip.

    Second, you have to get uke moving. Push, pull, change levels and fake footsweeps. You'll find a lot of openings for the throw when you're both moving. Keep the uke's left hand off of you with your right and when s/he comes in forward trying to grab you, go for the throw.
     
  14. Manatee

    Manatee Blue Belt

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    Thanks for all the replies, I finally nailed it, especially with the lapel grip instead of the sleeve. He was double stiff arming me. I just had to break the grip he had on my lapel, then I just moved around the stiff arm. Once I broke his balance and made contact it was gold from there. Seoi nage works well for me since I am only 5'8. The tips were awesome guys, didn't even have to drop seoi nage either. Again, it's appreciated. Thanks alot. It improved the throw ten fold.
     
  15. Thrawn33

    Thrawn33 JUST BLEED Belt

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    I suck at Seoi. Definatly not one of my go-to throws. I do use it as a fake for Osoto with some sucess.

    Nice to see you're studying the Koga tape, if there's a Seoi-God its him.
     
  16. Manatee

    Manatee Blue Belt

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    I always use osoto as a back up if the seoi nage goes to hell. I find it makes the osoto ridiculously powerful since you're gripping both sides of uke. It's awesome because they think you're going to throw them forward than backward.
     
  17. Thrawn33

    Thrawn33 JUST BLEED Belt

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    Being a tall and lanky bastard I find it harder for me to get low enough (in comp/randori) to hit seoi. Doesn't stop me from trying it at practice, but the only people I can really hit with it are the white belts. So much easier to use the legs.
     
  18. black koala

    black koala Banned Banned

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    Push - pull, make a few faints, and spin under.
     
  19. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    so there IS a Judo Chop!!!! :icon_chee:icon_chee:icon_chee
     
  20. Frost-bytE

    Frost-bytE White Belt

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    I'm pretty new to the Judo scene but lovin it, absolutely struggling with Seoi, cant seem to get explosive enough, ended up doin some 1 on 1 trainin with my Sensei which helped a lot, gave me pretty much the exact same tips as Yozigi so may be gettin better!

    this page has been a great read though gonna try implement some of the tips tomorrow, since I've made bein able to pull off seoi a kind of pet project and mission.
     

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