self defense proficiency?

[lechien]

So his only decent base is when he is in you guard not trying to pass?

Or you also having difficulties sweeping or submitting from the guard as well?

 

[bnosam]

So his only decent base is when he is in you guard not trying to pass?

Or you also having difficulties sweeping or submitting from the guard as well?

When he's posture in guard, he's hard to pull back down (i've hipbumped him a few times but he's started defending that better).

I realized that I do need to pull him down more when he's postured so he'll make a mistake. He's naturally a strong guy and he moves around building supplies all day (lifting it).

I've never submitted him yet because he usually gets gassed and asks me if he can rest for a few.

But I like rolling with him because it makes me try to adapt my game more.

 

[lechien]

fake the hip bump and bait him to defend by putting hand on the floor or on you then attack with kimura as well.

If he defend the hip bump, you gotta make him pay with a Kimura attempt.

then when he defend the kimura, switch to opposite leg pendulum sweep a la minatauro.

Then if he counter balance to defend the pendulum sweep, switch back to kimura and/or hip bump on opposite side.

of well you get the picture.

 

[bnosam]

fake the hip bump and bait him to defend by putting hand on the floor or on you then attack with kimura as well.

If he defend the hip bump, you gotta make him pay with a Kimura attempt.

then when he defend the kimura, switch to opposite leg pendulum sweep a la minatauro.

Then if he counter balance to defend the pendulum sweep, switch back to kimura and/or hip bump on opposite side.

of well you get the picture.

I'm used to rolling with big guys, but not big stronger guys. Thanks for the tips.

 

[lechien]

He is strong and he is learning from his mistakes.

I guess JJ is not just about matching strength vs strength.

In real fight, you would got that hip bump on the first attempt and that just would be it.

End of the fight.

 

[bnosam]

He is strong and he is learning from his mistakes.

I guess JJ is not just about matching strength vs strength.

In real fight, you would got that hip bump on the first attempt and that just would be it.

End of the fight.

I wanna teach him some BJJ bit by bit because he can't attend classes but he's a smart guy that can pick up quickly. He's really chill , quiet and doesn't act tough.

Rolling with him forces me to use technique because of his strength imo.

 

[bnosam]

I forgot to mention that I got two leglocks on my friend before (straight ankle lock and a heel hook) I let both go because he didn't tap to them because he doesn't know anything about leglocks and they didn't hurt him so I chose not to go any further and let go.

 

[Oak]

I haven't been in a street fight since I started BJJ but my ultimate goal would be to lock up with the guy and probably try a headlock to taking the back and choking the guy out while standing. If he falls in the process I'm still in a safe position.

If the guy landed on top of me for whatever reason I would go for a sweep to mount and then gnp or take the back and choke if he rolled away from punches.

 

[Waldorf]

I think from day one new guys should be training to themselves for a real fight. If he is trained right he should be ready to handle some unskilled fuck on the street at about the six month mark. I have a couple of students that have got into fights that have less than two months of training. Both submitted their opponents:icon_chee

A blue belt should be able to whoop any black belt from any traditional martial art such as Karate or kung Fu.

This gets my vote as the "correct answer"

 

[redaxe]

I forgot to mention that I got two leglocks on my friend before (straight ankle lock and a heel hook) I let both go because he didn't tap to them because he doesn't know anything about leglocks and they didn't hurt him so I chose not to go any further and let go.

good thing you remembered to mention that part

 

[bnosam]

good thing you remembered to mention that part

Leglocks are my favourite submissions, I usually get them in the gym, but it's pretty much catch and release in the gym.

 

[SteelHammer]

just because you train bjj or whatever does not mean you cannot punch someone in the nuts.

if i were to get into a fight now i would mount someone if i could and punch the shit out of them. don't think i would try to sub him. i would use bjj to gain position.

Alright, fair enough

Even if the fight is one on one (never seen it though there is always someone who interfers) i would not want to go to the ground. Your best bet will always be that you have trained some nice throws in your bjj training. Throw your enemy head first onto the pavement and get hell out of there or throw him and use soccer kicks and stomps (there is a reason why they are banned in the ufc/strikeforce etc.). This could be very expensive if the opponent sues you. Bjj comes in handy if you are in a bad spot (after a knockdown or somehting like that) and you want to get out of there.

That makes sense too

I think eye-gouging, groin attacks and biting are all unlikely from the guy in your triangle. If you do it correctly, especially against someone with no training, you should have both hands free after you quickly pull the arm in the triangle across. And it should take longer than half a second to gouge your eye out if you have even rudementary self preservation instincts. You will at least turn you head and tightly clinch your eyelids.

you people make gouging out someone's eye sound incredibly easy, like if your hand goes anywhere near their face their eyes will just fall out. in reality you are going to need to dig your fingers in there to cause permanent damage. most of the time the victim will close their eyes or turn their face away before anything truly damaging happens. also hand and wrist control is key to having a good guard

same with nut shots. while they fucking hurt they are not 1 shot KOs in adrenaline charged street fight. especially on the ground where you cant put as much power into a punch or a kick.

SteelHammer, you obviously don't train, or haven't trained for very long. If you try to eye-gouge me when I have you in a triangle, all I have to do is get perpendicular, making it impossible for you to reach my eyes with your trapped arm, while I can easily control your non-trapped arm with my hand that isn't grabbing my own shin. From there I can also apply a degree of choking pressure that will probably put you to sleep in five seconds. Good luck getting past my arm, getting to my eyes (not that easy when the head is moving around to avoid it) and digging them out before you pass out and piss your pants. And now I'm not even getting into the options I have to armbar you, or just eye-gouge you back (I have much better control of your head than you do of mine).

As for the RNC, all I have to do is turn my head inward to hide my face. You might be able to poke me in the ear for a few seconds before you go out.

I want to thank you three guys for actually thinking about this and giving a real response instead of saying "you suck you must never have trained" as everyone else seems to be.

steelhammer - might i suggest you find someone you know that has a fair bit of bjj training and try these moves on him to see how far you would get? i know you are being hypothetical but if proper technique is used, the assailant (esp. an untrained one) would not have the opportunity, time, space or use of free limb to pull some of these attacks off.

I would love to. I don't want to "prove bjj guys wrong", but if I am right about bjj underemphasizing defense against dirty street techniques, I would think bjj people would want to realize this. If I'm wrong and bjj is super-effective against gouges and whatnot that's fine too, I just like finding out. But until proven wrong I'm not afraid to say what I think.

Directed at SteelHammer... Why do you keep focusing on the Triangle Choke? Even if we go with your idea that eye gouges etc will prevent the choke... Who cares? There is a lot more to BJJ than that. It's the equivalent of saying "The BJJ practitioner would get his ass kicked because he'd try to jump guard and get slammed on the concrete!" because, no, providing he wasn't a moron, he would never attempt something like that in a street fight to begin with. I'm sure any school would tell you not to risk moves like that outside of a competition, and even if they didn't it really should just be common sense. If you take those moves away, there is still a lot left to the art.

Hell, even ignoring submissions completely there's still a huge amount that BJJ teaches you that'd be extremely effective. As has been stated, there is still a wealth of techniques for obtaining positional advantages which should make it relatively easy to defend yourself in a real life scenario. You don't need to be an expert to rain punches down on somebodies face from mount if you've already learnt how to get there and maintain position to begin with.

Well, it's like someone else was saying, that I was assuming bjj = guard position. I'm not actually saying that, but, you don't really need bjj to get into a mount and do a ground and pound. Not against an untrained opponent. So to me guard proficiency is one of the main benefits of bjj training.

 

[dazed863]

Well, it's like someone else was saying, that I was assuming bjj = guard position. I'm not actually saying that, but, you don't really need bjj to get into a mount and do a ground and pound. Not against an untrained opponent. So to me guard proficiency is one of the main benefits of bjj training.

wow.. seriously.. way to come off like a jackass and sound like you have absolutely no clue what your talking about.

i suggest at least doing the bare minimum research before putting your two cents in and trying to sound like you have a clue.



getting into mount and keeping it isnt a cake walk if you've never trained. feel free to try it on one of your friends.

if you've never trained chokes are extremely painful and will have you choking almost instantly... i see someone spazzing for a few seconds then sucking pavement... i love watching someone face the first time they drill cross collar choke with someone who knows what they are doing.

also i train in a sport oriented school.. top position is always taught as the preferred position. we also spar for takedowns at least twice a week. even when we do go over jumping guard we always immediately look for a sweep and if we miss and still have to opportunity we are taught to bail and roll for a single...

 

[SteelHammer]

wow.. seriously.. way to come off like a jackass and sound like you have absolutely no clue what your talking about.

i suggest at least doing the bare minimum research before putting your two cents in and trying to sound like you have a clue.



getting into mount and keeping it isnt a cake walk if you've never trained. feel free to try it on one of your friends.

if you've never trained chokes are extremely painful and will have you choking almost instantly... i see someone spazzing for a few seconds then sucking pavement... i love watching someone face the first time they drill cross collar choke with someone who knows what they are doing.

also i train in a sport oriented school.. top position is always taught as the preferred position. we also spar for takedowns at least twice a week. even when we do go over jumping guard we always immediately look for a sweep and if we miss and still have to opportunity we are taught to bail and roll for a single...

But you don't need bjj specifically to learn to mount, do you? even just learning to wrestle will make it much easier for you to get a mount against an opponent who has no training in anything. I'm talking about what bjj specifically will give you for the street

 

[lechien]

I think the most important part of BJJ is its point system and the recognition that dominant positions via their point system.

It is just something ingrained from the first day one person steps on the mats regardless if he is a competitor or not.

 

[dazed863]

But you don't need bjj specifically to learn to mount, do you? even just learning to wrestle will make it much easier for you to get a mount against an opponent who has no training in anything. I'm talking about what bjj specifically will give you for the street

wtf are you getting at? here is what the OP posted since obviously you need to re-read it..

open ended question... flame away.

We assume (probably correctly so) that boxing and grappling are probably the best way to defend yourself. Let's say you went the grappling route, namely picking up brazilian jiujitsu as your primary art instead of judo or sambo or wrestling. At which point in your jiujitsu career do you think a practicing jiujitsu player is proficient at defending themself against random encounters (people not trained in any arts?) one on one encounter in the middle of the streets with no one to interfere. This is not a knock against any other arts, just a question in which level of jiujitsu would someone be able to properly defend themself against an attacker (that isn't high on drugs or armed).

Do you think a high white (3rd/4th stripe white) or blue, or even purple?

but addressing your question no. wrestling will not make it easier for you to achieve mount on an untrained opponent... especially if you end up on your back....

 

[bnosam]

wtf are you getting at? here is what the OP posted since obviously you need to re-read it..




but addressing your question no. wrestling will not make it easier for you to achieve mount on an untrained opponent... especially if you end up on your back....

That is extremely debatable.

 

[SteelHammer]

@dazed863

That's exactly what I was answering, a jujitsu practioner trying to defend against random encounters on the street. what part of that is different than what I said?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Never. There are so many things illegal in BJJ and even UFC tournaments that the grappling there is not going to work on the street against head stomps, groin kicks, eye gouges, etc. You might win but lose an eye or an ear. I don't call that winning.

I will not tell you what most ppl here already told you, its more than obvius you have never ever been in a grappling match...

If you are in a triangle position... and you try to eye gougue me... I will control your wrist, put it aside for a little while, while I play with your expose head, I will draw a fucking picasso with my fingers, I will make your mouth look like "the joker" from batman, then I will break you arm whos trapped, and just to finish, I will choke the fuck out of you, what can you do to stop this... NOTHING!! there is ZERO chance you can reach my head.... you may think you could slam your way out, I will just wrap my arms around one of your legs, and you will not be able to stand up, and if you do somehow stand up, I'll just let the triangle go, but you will be missing an eye, and will need surgery to even try to get it back to normal, then I will take you down again, and will do the same, but from the mount...

If I get your back, and you try to bite my arm, I will bite your neck, your ear, and then will proceed to choke the fuck out of you, and might even kill you, there is no tapping and I decide wheter I let you live or not...

instead of talking out of your total ass, get in a gym an try to do any of that, you could go to varius mma places, or bjj gyms, and call out some student to a "vale tudo fight" you will probably find someone willing to take you challenge, put it on youtube and prove how useless bjj is on the streets...

 

[SteelHammer]

I will not tell you what most ppl here already told you, its more than obvius you have never ever been in a grappling match...

If you are in a triangle position... and you try to eye gougue me... I will control your wrist, put it aside for a little while, while I play with your expose head, I will draw a fucking picasso with my fingers, I will make your mouth look like "the joker" from batman, then I will break you arm whos trapped, and just to finish, I will choke the fuck out of you, what can you do to stop this... NOTHING!! there is ZERO chance you can reach my head.... you may think you could slam your way out, I will just wrap my arms around one of your legs, and you will not be able to stand up, and if you do somehow stand up, I'll just let the triangle go, but you will be missing an eye, and will need surgery to even try to get it back to normal, then I will take you down again, and will do the same, but from the mount...

If I get your back, and you try to bite my arm, I will bite your neck, your ear, and then will proceed to choke the fuck out of you, and might even kill you, there is no tapping and I decide wheter I let you live or not...

instead of talking out of your total ass, get in a gym an try to do any of that, you could go to varius mma places, or bjj gyms, and call out some student to a "vale tudo fight" you will probably find someone willing to take you challenge, put it on youtube and prove how useless bjj is on the streets...

You sound like an idiot. "and might even kill you, there is no tapping and I decide wheter I let you live or not." Are you like 12 years old? All I have been saying is realistic criticisms of techniques that are illegal in bjj training and hence not specifically trained against. I never said I would bite you, in fact I said that bites are useless if you read my posts. Do you feel that bjj is beyond reproach and that any non-bjj challenger on the street is going to crumble under your @w3some p0wer? Don't flame me for posting an opinion and attempting to support it with evidence.