Secret to hard punching

[NHB7]

There are a lot of factors. Technique obviously, strength for certain, genetics don't hurt. Also, Chuck is a counter striker, so he catches people as they are moving forward into his punches. Thats why a head on car crash is usually more damaging than a rear end hit.

 

[Ground&Pound]

is this serious?

 

[Come Again?]

i saw an interview with bas i think and his exact words were "i've talked about this with many great boxers and boxing coaches and the consensus is that either you can punch hard or you cant". i presume he is talking about nasty KO power a'la liddell. you can certainly refine your technique to make you a better/more crisp puncher but you just cant learn to hit ridiculously hard like liddell or other varous KO artists. certain dudes are just born with it.

 

[SalamandraNinja]

Force equals mass multiplied by accelaration.

Force isn't as important in this. A train moving at a constant 100km/h would have no resultant force, would still completely obliterate anything infront of it.

Kinetic energy = 1/2mv^2, however, kinetic energy isn't conserved in inelastic collisions. Punches connecting with a person's face is not an elastic collision, so this isn't relevant either.

The only relevant one is Momentum = mv. Momentum is always conserved in elastic or inelastic collisions.

Therefore, the person with the hardest punch is the person that can put the most mass behind their fist, whilst moving their fist as fast as possible. With both the effective mass and the velocity of that fist being equally important.

 

[FIGHTING TALK]

Secrets of punching.

1, Relax.

 

[Gunny]

Dude, the mass part in that theory (F=MA) pertains to the weight behind the vector; mostly your muscular exertion. The vector for the weight of your hands, being so light, is more in the direction of gravity. So if you want more punching power you would need to put as much muscular exertion behind your fist as fast as possible.

In other words, use the muscular contraction of your whole body and do it quick. Like Fedor basically.

Have you ever hit someone with a roll of quarters in your hand? The vector is still in the direction of gravity but you definatly generate a lot more force.

 

[Tom Hishon]

Professional boxers call it opening your hips, or sitting down on your punches. KB or karate call it second on contact. But what it equates to is your hips start to turn first, your fist behind your center line of your chest with your feet planted and pushing thru your target as fast as you can. SpeedXMass=Force.

 

[Casale]

For those physicists out there, "Force" has no reflection on how hard you hit. The key is an impulse, which is a short burst of momentum. Momentum = mass x veloctiy squared. Which essentially means that speed is twice as important as mass (weight) which debunks your heavy hands theory. Momentum, combined with concentration (size of the attacking tool, in this case the knuckles) will determine the "power" of a punch.
Mass can be increased in many ways, the most common is to rigify the body into one solid object at the time of impact so that it's not just the weight of the hand, but the weight of your whole body, multiplied by the square of all the various speeds of the body (because the fist is travelling a lot faster than the shoulder) will result in the most powerful punch.

 

[TeamJipdo]

There's a fundamental rule to all fighting arts.

Base

Angle

Leverage

The END.

 

[TitoIsTheMan]

Big Wrinkled Balls

Uncalled for, but hilarious nonetheless

 

[bubba_yeah]

i saw an interview with bas i think and his exact words were "i've talked about this with many great boxers and boxing coaches and the consensus is that either you can punch hard or you cant". i presume he is talking about nasty KO power a'la liddell. you can certainly refine your technique to make you a better/more crisp puncher but you just cant learn to hit ridiculously hard like liddell or other varous KO artists. certain dudes are just born with it.

That's right. Just like Jordan in basketball. Tyson in boxing. Jimmy Hendrix on guitar. So forth

 

[FIGHTING TALK]

i saw an interview with bas i think and his exact words were "i've talked about this with many great boxers and boxing coaches and the consensus is that either you can punch hard or you cant". i presume he is talking about nasty KO power a'la liddell. you can certainly refine your technique to make you a better/more crisp puncher but you just cant learn to hit ridiculously hard like liddell or other varous KO artists. certain dudes are just born with it.

I would put that down to timing. In a fight situation you can call on your training and experience for technique but good timing is as good as impossible to learn.
Chuck has learnt how to throw better punches, how to unload, use his weight, legs ,hips etc but what he already knew was that precise moment to let go, its kind of like a light that goes off with some people, a reaction if you will.
His range-finding is also impeccable.

 

[23andbeginner**]

For those physicists out there, "Force" has no reflection on how hard you hit. The key is an impulse, which is a short burst of momentum. Momentum = mass x veloctiy squared. Which essentially means that speed is twice as important as mass (weight) which debunks your heavy hands theory. Momentum, combined with concentration (size of the attacking tool, in this case the knuckles) will determine the "power" of a punch.
Mass can be increased in many ways, the most common is to rigify the body into one solid object at the time of impact so that it's not just the weight of the hand, but the weight of your whole body, multiplied by the square of all the various speeds of the body (because the fist is travelling a lot faster than the shoulder) will result in the most powerful punch.

I erased all i wrote here, because it is overly complicating also.

So basically what follows a force acting upon something is acceleration. For a given body the resulting acceleration is directly proportional to the applied force. Even if the force changes over time like with a punch this holds true. At every moment the acceleration is directly related to the force that is acting, you follow? The mass stays the same throughout, unless your hand grows new fingers or the bones in your arm get heavier while throwing or something.

It's been stated all the time that:

F = m*a

Furthermore:

a(arrow)(t) = d v(arrow) / d t

Basically differentiating the change in velocity over time leaves you with acceleration. So why is talking about acceleration wrong and talking about velocity right?

Furthermore Newton's 2nd axiom states that:

F(arrow)=p(arrow and dot above)

So what is not right about what any of us said? In fact, what you said about force cannot be true.

Basically the impulse differentiated over time leaves you with the force dude, so you are overly complicating here (or using special equations made for what we were looking at instead of more understandable, easy language, whichever way pleases you) and we were absolutely right, unless you want to call Newton a liar :icon_chee

With the rest i agree.

 

[HapkidoBoxer]

please stop with the mathematics
there is no math to how hard you can punch unless you add in the person's weight, the weight of their shoulders, their biceps, how heavy their hands are.
there are wayyy too many variables to be able to put punching power into an equation
but what we do know are certain techniques in order to improve punching power.
the only realistic equation would be if you were to hook your body up to a machine and get some quantam physics nerd to analyze every aspect of your body.
so sorry keyboard warriors, don't look too hard into the math of punching.

 

[Masakari-ken]

This is pretty good read. It was written by Jack Dempseyhttp://danzan-ryu.tribe.net/thread/592659d0-4639-4033-8ee0-3e6db893dfd2

 

[Slick_mick]

magic?

 

[strike artist]

All good arguments lads, the physics stuff is reasonable but I still think punching power is more natural i.e. have/have-not than science-based.

Think about Tyson, Tyson had the snot beaten out of him as a kid and developed that rage which you'd see in his punches, when he wound up a shot he'd channel all that anger and aggression and explode right through his opponent. When Cus D'Amato met Tyson (who was in prison at 12 at the time) and saw that he had the gift he said to a friend that "he'd found his next world champion". I doubt Amato saw Tyson and thought, well F=MA so if we increase A then......bla,bla,bla....he probably saw that Tyson just "had it".

I think both arguments are sound and, if you want to go down the physics road then yes Tyson was heavy i.e. mass=big and yes he did accelerate right through his punches (and his opponents!) so acceleration=big. big x big=very big so fine physicists, you could say its all science.

But I still think had it not been for the bullying that shaped him as a person he wouldn't have been as devastating, you can have the tools but not the heart. What made Tyson so devastating was his mix of aggression (heart) and sheer size (tools).

So, I guess punching power is to do with the physics stuff but its whether you just have/haven't got "it" that's really important. Either way, all I know is that Cus never worked out the equations!! :icon_chee

 

[Sub Master88]

I said it before and I'll say it again, you dont need hard punches, just pressure points.

 

[Skyline21]

Also, someone that can punch hard can be said to have heavy hands, That's meant to be figurative obviously. But do you think maybe Chuck and Fedor might have hands that weigh more than the others, with their hand bone density being thicker?

ROFL!!! That is fuckin hilarious!!!!



Anyway in Chucks ase its accuracy, in crocops case it technique and Fedors case explosiveness.

 

[23andbeginner**]

All good arguments lads, the physics stuff is reasonable but I still think punching power is more natural i.e. have/have-not than science-based.

Think about Tyson, Tyson had the snot beaten out of him as a kid and developed that rage which you'd see in his punches, when he wound up a shot he'd channel all that anger and aggression and explode right through his opponent. When Cus D'Amato met Tyson (who was in prison at 12 at the time) and saw that he had the gift he said to a friend that "he'd found his next world champion". I doubt Amato saw Tyson and thought, well F=MA so if we increase A then......bla,bla,bla....he probably saw that Tyson just "had it".

Absolutely. He had an eye for technique and since with a big mass Tyson moved so fast, he figured his strength qualities were what they needed to be.

I think both arguments are sound and, if you want to go down the physics road then yes Tyson was heavy i.e. mass=big and yes he did accelerate right through his punches (and his opponents!) so acceleration=big. big x big=very big so fine physicists, you could say its all science.

Actually the real science is the sport science involved. You can make anyone a heavy hitter unless they are unable to pick up technique. Anyone that either says you are or you are not doesn't know what it takes or specializes on technique and making the best better. Really good trainers will make anyone good, because theyy know what you need to do and how much to get you to a higher level.

I should know. I never was explosive. I have trained track for 5 years and never got faster than 12.5s 100 meters which oviously sucks if you figure in how much i trained. Others training with me have made it to the olympics with the exact same training under the exact same coach. We were virtually training side by side and some excelled and i didn't. The thing is i always tried to play sports that require being explosive. We trained a whole bunch of plyometrics, running and technique drills, moving your hips right, increasing range of motion, balancing out everything, jumping, one-legged stuff, etc.

The reason why some people it worked for extremely well and it didn't for me was simply that i had a big deficit when you compare weight to absolute strength. Some others were a lot lighter and had more strength in their legs. I have had knee problems, so just staying healthy through all the training was tough for me. Then my fiber make-up is pretty average also, like i said before. I seem to have a lot of FT-fibers only in the upper body. Squatting sets of 10 makes me stronger, but squatting sets of 3 doesn't help (only for peak power). Benching 10's doesn't do anything for me while benching sets of 3 makes me stronger very fast. Of course i can't stay in that range all the time, there is more to it, but that would be too much to explain here.

If i were to box i would be the guy that just doesn't hit hard, the type only really really good trainers would be able to make a heavy hitter. You should know why if you follow.

I started powerlifting 3 years ago, because i had such pain in my knee from walking only. I was at 25% BF due to not doing any sports for three years. 2 years later i went to a track just for fun and ran a 12.8.

While that doesn't seem very fast i would have thought in the shape that i am i would struggle to get a 14.0 seriously. I struggled to squat 50 pounds when i was a runner, because my knees were so unstable. Now my pain is gone and the best squat so far was a 4 times 340 pound squat. Now imagine i would have had that strength and stability when i did the plyos. What do you think would have happend? I can tell you waht. I would have been a good sprinter. My coach didn't know that to be fast you have to be strong first and foremost.

Would i go so far to say i could have been Ben Johnson?

Absolutely not. That's where talent comes into play. Training your muscles to fire in unison and balancing them so that, like that one guy said, your own muscles don't hold you back, is a thing that can be done with anyone. Anyone can train to be extremely strong and explosive. Some are going to be less talented in that area, but then they have more talent to do good in cardio. Fighting takes such a mixture that you can train to fit your type perfectly, no matter what fiber make-up you have. That's why anyone can be a great fighter. Tito won't ever throw like Crocop, but Crocop won't ever be able to wrestle for half an hour with Tito and then sub him in the end.

But I still think had it not been for the bullying that shaped him as a person he wouldn't have been as devastating, you can have the tools but not the heart. What made Tyson so devastating was his mix of aggression (heart) and sheer size (tools).

Agreed.

So, I guess punching power is to do with the physics stuff but its whether you just have/haven't got "it" that's really important.

I strongly disagree. Everything is science and it is all based on math and physics. Even the way your cns is able to fire your muscle can't be looked at from a mathematical standpoint.
And everyone has it in them to be a great fighter, all it takes is knowledge in sports and dedicated training and well a bunch of talent, but if the first two are in line you can become a contender anywhere for sure even with average talent. Often the hard workers exceed the expectations and talented guys sit back and just think they are so much better that they lack in other aspects and get surpassed. Seen it hundreds of times.

Either way, all I know is that Cus never worked out the equations!! :icon_chee

That's true.