Scottie Pippen aint a top 50 player......

[Bay Area]

I think I'll take the words of SHAQ DIESEL over the likes of you Gay Area.

Its called being humble. Kobe was told to defer to Shaq's dominance when they were teammates by Phil. He was a second option. I'll take Phil's opinion over yours. Also Kobe received zero finals MVPs when they were teammates. That stat speaks volumes of Kobe's position on the team. He was Shaq's son. And lol at Shaq saying Kobe is better than Lebron because 5>3. That's grade school level analytics. Real scholars know that Kobe doesn't come near Lebron in any category

 

[illclint]

Its called being humble. Kobe was told to defer to Shaq's dominance when they were teammates by Phil. He was a second option. I'll take Phil's opinion over yours. Also Kobe received zero finals MVPs when they were teammates. That stat speaks volumes of Kobe's position on the team. He was Shaq's son. And lol at Shaq saying Kobe is better than Lebron because 5>3. That's grade school level analytics. Real scholars know that Kobe doesn't come near Lebron in any category

I agree regarding shaq and kobe. Hard to compare lebron and kobe because lebron plays in the least.

 

[dutch18022]

TS I believe is a huge Jordan fan, a big Jordan fan always tries to discredit Pippen so Jordan looks even greater

 

[gspieler]

Its called being humble. Kobe was told to defer to Shaq's dominance when they were teammates by Phil. He was a second option. I'll take Phil's opinion over yours. Also Kobe received zero finals MVPs when they were teammates. That stat speaks volumes of Kobe's position on the team. He was Shaq's son. And lol at Shaq saying Kobe is better than Lebron because 5>3. That's grade school level analytics. Real scholars know that Kobe doesn't come near Lebron in any category

Really? Kobe doesn't come near Lebron in any category? Ballhandling, penetration, shooting, defending the perimeter, ability to lead, mental toughness, clutchness, etc...

 

[Revolver]

Really? Kobe doesn't come near Lebron in any category? Ballhandling, penetration, shooting, defending the perimeter, ability to lead, mental toughness, clutchness, etc...

Only in rapes tbf.

 

[Bay Area]

Really? Kobe doesn't come near Lebron in any category? Ballhandling, penetration, shooting, defending the perimeter, ability to lead, mental toughness, clutchness, etc...

Ball handling....no
Penetration... no.
Shooting........lol no. He's 45% career FG compared to Lebron's 50%
Defending perimeter......Ill give you that one
Mental toughness........ doesn't mean anything. Care to qualify or quantify that?
Ability to lead............. again meaningless. Back this up with a stat category
Clutchness....so far yes, however Lebron is still in his prime

You forgot assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, PPG, 3 point percentage and awards won. Lebron is better in each category

 

[gspieler]

Ball handling....no
Penetration... no.
Shooting........lol no. He's 45% career FG compared to Lebron's 50%
Defending perimeter......Ill give you that one
Mental toughness........ doesn't mean anything. Care to qualify or quantify that?
Ability to lead............. again meaningless. Back this up with a stat category
Clutchness....so far yes, however Lebron is still in his prime

You forgot assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, PPG, 3 point percentage and awards won. Lebron is better in each category

I didn't state there weren't categories were Lebron is objectively better. I questioned your claim that Lebron is better in every single facet of the game. And you're clearly cherry-picking on the ones that are subjective. Claiming that Lebron is the better ball handler and better penetrator are subjective claims. So is claiming Kobe is tougher and a better leader. Whether you like it or not, the game includes intangibles.

 

[Madmick]

most great coaches preach defense first. offense wins games, defense wins championships type mentality.

No, objectively wrong.

This was true when I used to play (mostly...many famous forward-thinking coaches already scoffed at the notion). Moneyball has flipped this completely. We now know that elite offensive players are more valuable than elite defensive players. Kevin Pelton, basketball's resident top math nerd, has written about this-- including recently. There is a much wider range of disparity between value added by players offensively versus defensively.

Ironically, another adage of basketball camps is "Repetition is the divider" (as towards shooting skill). So we already knew this. We just confused ourselves by saying it wrong. In other words, in light of contemporary statistical analysis, it can no longer be argued that the adage all those years was wrong.

It should be, "Skills wins championships", and of course offense requires more skill.

 

[Breakitdown]

Sorry. I'll put my money where my mouth is too.

No particular order

1. Jordan

2. Hakeem

3. Shaq

4. Kobe

5. Kareem

6. Magic

7. Larry

8. Oscar

9. Wilt

10. West

11. Lebron

12. Duncan

13. Curry

14. KD

15. Garnett

16. Dirk

17. Wade

18. Willis Reed

19. Russell

20. Stockton

21. Isiah

22. Elgin

23. Dr J

24. Rick Barry

25. Moses

26. McHale

27. Malone

28. Barkley

29. Lucas

30. Arizin

31. Elvin Hayes

32. AI

33. Robinson

34. Cowens

35. Unseld

36. Pistol Pete

37. Worthy

38. Gervin

39. Nash

40. Kidd

41. Payton

42. Petit

43. Thurmond

44. Greer

45. Dominique

46. Westbrook

47. Ewing

48. Tiny

49. Hawkins

50. Havilcek

......

You haven't even seen many of these players play the game.

LLMFAO @ "Greer" - as if you're so familiar with the guy (again who you've never seen on a court before) that you're comfortable only using his last name.

This list is a farce by all accounts and you should probably refrain from talking about a game you are so ill equipped to analyze, I'm speaking for everyone when I say this.

 

[Prime Rib]

Ball handling....no
Penetration... no.
Shooting........lol no. He's 45% career FG compared to Lebron's 50%
Defending perimeter......Ill give you that one
Mental toughness........ doesn't mean anything. Care to qualify or quantify that?
Ability to lead............. again meaningless. Back this up with a stat category
Clutchness....so far yes, however Lebron is still in his prime

You forgot assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, PPG, 3 point percentage and awards won. Lebron is better in each category

Kobe has it on the penetration.

 

[Breakitdown]

Lol Kobe isn't better than Shaq.

Agreed. He's actually far better (per Snaq's own analysis). Snaq's fatass would have never sniffed a ring had it not been for the GOAT's transcendent heroics against the true contenders of the day (sac, sas, etc). This is a well subscribed truism in the analyst community, for you to not be aware of this says everything we need to know about your standing in the aforementioned group(casual/gutter-tier).

who cared little for his teammates.

Lol'ing hard @ this white knight grievance. You should reach out to his teammates with offerings of support to make up for the little care the GOAT provided for them. What a laughable criticism. White knighting a rag-tag bunch of D-leaguers carried by the greatest to ever play the game, I've truly lived to see it all.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Really? Kobe doesn't come near Lebron in any category? Ballhandling, penetration, shooting, defending the perimeter, ability to lead, mental toughness, clutchness, etc...

Ball handler you can argue (I'd go Kobe), but Lebron is a way better penetrator than Kobe ever was. Higher frequency, higher success rate, better facilitator and scorer off the drive. It's what made Lebron Lebron. Kobe mastered every trick in the book and could create some space anywhere on the court, but penetrating towards the basket? This isn't close.

Shooting? Kobe was better at shooting bad shots and much better at FTs. Lebron takes smarter shots and shoots far more efficiently. And because defenders are afraid to play him tight on the perimeter (because he's a better penetrator) he gets more open 3's than Kobe did and shoots them better.

Defending the perimeter. In their primes Kobe was better. Both are lulzy in their later years.

Ability to lead? Both guys are perpetual divas who always seem close to having their team implode. Meh.

Mental toughness? I guess Kobe. But people who point to Bern cramps are being ridiculous.

Clutchness? Kobe isn't really a great clutch shooter. He just took so many clutch shots you can fill a long highlight reel of his makes. But by the numbers he's nothing special in this area. You can do the same with Lebron, though his failures are far more famous than Kobe's were. I still go Kobe, but I think this is an overrated category for him.

This leaves out everything else which almost all points Lebron, except team accomplishments.

 

[Bay Area]

Ball handler you can argue (I'd go Kobe), but Lebron is a way better penetrator than Kobe ever was. Higher frequency, higher success rate, better facilitator and scorer off the drive. It's what made Lebron Lebron. Kobe mastered every trick in the book and could create some space anywhere on the court, but penetrating towards the basket? This isn't close.

Shooting? Kobe was better at shooting bad shots and much better at FTs. Lebron takes smarter shots and shoots far more efficiently. And because defenders are afraid to play him tight on the perimeter (because he's a better penetrator) he gets more open 3's than Kobe did and shoots them better.

Defending the perimeter. In their primes Kobe was better. Both are lulzy in their later years.

Ability to lead? Both guys are perpetual divas who always seem close to having their team implode. Meh.

Mental toughness? I guess Kobe. But people who point to Bern cramps are being ridiculous.

Clutchness? Kobe isn't really a great clutch shooter. He just took so many clutch shots you can fill a long highlight reel of his makes. But by the numbers he's nothing special in this area. You can do the same with Lebron, though his failures are far more famous than Kobe's were. I still go Kobe, but I think this is an overrated category for him.

This leaves out everything else which almost all points Lebron, except team accomplishments.

Kobe doesn't come close to Bron in penetration... but you really don' think Bron is a better ball handler?

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Kobe doesn't come close to Bron in penetration... but you really don' think Bron is a better ball handler?

Kobe's handles were really good and he had every move ever invented for creating space wherever he was on the floor. Lebron is better at penetration because he's a 270 lbs freight train with incredible first step speed and agility.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

You haven't even seen many of these players play the game.

LLMFAO @ "Greer" - as if you're so familiar with the guy (again who you've never seen on a court before) that you're comfortable only using his last name.

This list is a farce by all accounts and you should probably refrain from talking about a game you are so ill equipped to analyze, I'm speaking for everyone when I say this.

<45>

Thanks for letting me know. Just an fyi

You speak for no one and are posting on a random internet board. Your welcome to have a different opinion than me but to post something as ridiculous as this is sorta embarrassing.

Heres what i would suggest. Either (1) disagree with me and explain why in a normal rationale manner or (2) resist your natual impulse to post something dumb and just ignore my thread and move on with your day

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Kobe's handles were really good and he had every move ever invented for creating space wherever he was on the floor. Lebron is better at penetration because he's a 270 lbs freight train with incredible first step speed and agility.

One thing I find interesting is a lot of players take kobe over lebron

 

[Woldog]

Dr Jay and Karl Malone are the real GOATS of basketball.

 

[gspieler]

Ball handler you can argue (I'd go Kobe), but Lebron is a way better penetrator than Kobe ever was. Higher frequency, higher success rate, better facilitator and scorer off the drive. It's what made Lebron Lebron. Kobe mastered every trick in the book and could create some space anywhere on the court, but penetrating towards the basket? This isn't close.

Shooting? Kobe was better at shooting bad shots and much better at FTs. Lebron takes smarter shots and shoots far more efficiently. And because defenders are afraid to play him tight on the perimeter (because he's a better penetrator) he gets more open 3's than Kobe did and shoots them better.

Defending the perimeter. In their primes Kobe was better. Both are lulzy in their later years.

Ability to lead? Both guys are perpetual divas who always seem close to having their team implode. Meh.

Mental toughness? I guess Kobe. But people who point to Bern cramps are being ridiculous.

Clutchness? Kobe isn't really a great clutch shooter. He just took so many clutch shots you can fill a long highlight reel of his makes. But by the numbers he's nothing special in this area. You can do the same with Lebron, though his failures are far more famous than Kobe's were. I still go Kobe, but I think this is an overrated category for him.

This leaves out everything else which almost all points Lebron, except team accomplishments.

The claim I refuted was that Lebron is/was better than Kobe in every aspect of the game...which is false. I'd consider Lebron to have the overall greater legacy, even if he retired today. But clearly, there are some areas where Kobe was his superior, some areas where Lebron is the superior, and other areas that could be argued either way.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

One thing I find interesting is a lot of players take kobe over lebron

Well I think most players fall into the titles trap. Some it's because Kobe came first and there is always bias towards what we saw when we were younger. Old players will still tell you Bill Russell is the GOAT.

But Kobe is a more all around skilled basketball player than Lebron is. Lebron is just such a physical freak that he ends up dwarfing even a highly skilled, world class athlete like Kobe with his production. He's also highly skilled, but not on Kobe's level in terms of mastering footwork and other fine points.

 

[Gregolian]

Pippen has said Lebron > Jordan before

Not sure why he is tripping on Isiah saying it

Cause he's losing his mind from being near Rodman for all those years

Well I think most players fall into the titles trap. Some it's because Kobe came first and there is always bias towards what we saw when we were younger. Old players will still tell you Bill Russell is the GOAT.

But Kobe is a more all around skilled basketball player than Lebron is. Lebron is just such a physical freak that he ends up dwarfing even a highly skilled, world class athlete like Kobe with his production. He's also highly skilled, but not on Kobe's level in terms of mastering footwork and other fine points.

As a casual I think people pick Kobe over LeRoid because Kobe never really became a ghost in the playoffs the way LeRoid did during the beginning of his career.

The other factor too is that Kobe never left some of those shite Lakers teams he was on for super teams too.