Scottie Pippen aint a top 50 player......

HTTR21 said:
No fucking penny hardaway?! Fuck you and fuck this thread. And going back over your list a second time I noticed that Reggie miller isnt on there either. Fuck you dude... fuck you.
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Lol Reggie is overrated.

my top 10
Kareem
Michael
Lebron
Shaq
Duncan
Magic
Kobe
Hakeem
Bird
Malone
 
XThe GreatestX said:
Sorry. I'll put my money where my mouth is too.

No particular order

1. Jordan

2. Hakeem

3. Shaq

4. Kobe

5. Kareem

6. Magic

7. Larry

8. Oscar

9. Wilt

10. West

11. Lebron

12. Duncan

13. Curry

14. KD

15. Garnett

16. Dirk

17. Wade

18. Willis Reed

19. Russell

20. Stockton

21. Isiah

22. Elgin

23. Dr J

24. Rick Barry

25. Moses

26. McHale

27. Malone

28. Barkley

29. Lucas

30. Arizin

31. Elvin Hayes

32. AI

33. Robinson

34. Cowens

35. Unseld

36. Pistol Pete

37. Worthy

38. Gervin

39. Nash

40. Kidd

41. Payton

42. Petit

43. Thurmond

44. Greer

45. Dominique

46. Westbrook

47. Ewing

48. Tiny

49. Hawkins

50. Havilcek

......
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Lol at Lebron not breaking the top 10.

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Bay Area said:
Lol Reggie is overrated.

my top 10
Kareem
Michael
Lebron
Shaq
Duncan
Magic
Kobe
Hakeem
Bird
Malone
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Being as I'm a Pacers fan, those are fighting words. Lol
 
berimBOWLoh said:
It's weird that you can only be elite on offensive end and easily make the list but Rodman might be the best defender and rebounder of all time and gets no consideration?
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You should've seen this place when I did my top 50 PF list and dared have Dennis in the top 10
 
Palis said:
Hakeem and Snaq above Kobe?

<Manning1>

Other than that, solid list.
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Lol Kobe isn't better than Shaq. Are you serious? Kobe was a chucker who cared little for his teammates. Which is why they only got 3 out of 5. Kobe has a career 45% FG. Lebron and Jordan have over 50%
 
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Bay Area said:
Lol Kobe isn't better than Shaq. Are you serious? Kobe was a chucker who cared little for his teammates. Which is why they only got 3 out of 5. Kobe has a career 45% FG. Lebron and Jordan have over 50%
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I think I'll take the words of SHAQ DIESEL over the likes of you Gay Area.







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<DisgustingHHH>
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gspieler said:
I agree with you to an extent. But at the same time, defense and rebounding are more learnable skills. You can't teach somebody to find the open man like Nash, or hit a 20ft fadeaway j off one foot like Dirk.
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What Rodman did so well wasn't learnable though. He had the best timing I've ever seen on the boards. He also had an incredible ability to keep bouncing on time and with the right momentum when there were multiple people fighting for the ball in midair. If his rebounding technique were learnable, he wouldn't have been anything special. His defense has similar elements as he was better at anticipating post moves than most anyone.

I still don't know that I'd have him top 50, but he's in the conversation. You have to think about him like a Steve Nash, amazing on one end, all but useless on the other. Nash got some steals, Rodman got some Offensive boards, but that's the end of their impact on their weak sides. Only thing is, as great as Rodman is defensively, it's basketball and good offense beats good defense in basketball, so I'd argue a great, one-sided offensive player is probably more valuable than a great, one-sided defensive player.
 
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Martian 2.0 said:
link? would love to humiliate the weirdos that argued otherwise
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I recall a lot more uproar about Faust putting Carlos Boozer top 25 all-time PF than the Rodman selection, but I might be wrong.
 
I think I had 'Los Booze in the 26-50 range, but maybe I had him at 25. Who cares, he had the credentials and 99% of cans bitching about it couldn't even name 25 PFs in all of NBA history

The Rodman debate was good tho
 
It was your criteria that caused the Boozer pick. That's not a knock. Any system with (fairly) strict rules is going to cough up a few 'Nah, man's like that. It was still a pretty good scientific experiment imo and put together a pretty solid list without having to do much tinkering. As I recall it was Rasheed Wallace being ranked too highly that bothered me most. But I've always thought he was overrated.
 
Martian 2.0 said:
link? would love to humiliate the weirdos that argued otherwise
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Honestly, I don't remember, but I think I had a gut reaction to Rodman top-10 of no. But after thinking about it decided there weren't 10 guys you can say dominated offensively enough to overcome him. My problem with Rodman being ranked too high is that he became more and more offensively inept as his career goes on. By the time he gets to the Bulls he can't even complete a put back layup most of the time. Yes his boards stay up, but a lot of that is the Bulls needing him to grab everything in sight because he didn't have Laimbeer, Robinson, etc next to him. He did it, because he was great at it, all credit due. But his complete lack of preparation or production on the offensive end can't just be ignored when comparing him to other players. He was perfect for that Bulls team. Phenomenal defensive team with Mike there to score enough to win. He was literally everything they needed after getting their asses kicked in the 'yoffs in '95 in the paint. I don't know that that makes him actually as valuable as a great offensive PF who plays some defense. So I go back and forth with him.
 
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iwhoopedbatman said:
What Rodman did so well wasn't learnable though. He had the best timing I've ever seen on the boards. He also had an incredible ability to keep bouncing on time and with the right momentum when there were multiple people fighting for the ball in midair. If his rebounding technique were learnable, he wouldn't have been anything special. His defense has similar elements as he was better at anticipating post moves than most anyone.

I still don't know that I'd have him top 50, but he's in the conversation. You have to think about him like a Steve Nash, amazing on one end, all but useless on the other. Nash got some steals, Rodman got some Offensive boards, but that's the end of their impact on their weak sides. Only thing is, as great as Rodman is defensively, it's basketball and good offense beats good defense in basketball, so I'd argue a great, one-sided offensive player is probably more valuable than a great, one-sided defensive player.
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most great coaches preach defense first. offense wins games, defense wins championships type mentality.


you think of all the dynasty type teams. lots of them were offensive af but still had great defenders on their team. Pistons, Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Spurs. Even this latest GS mini era they have 2 of the better defenders in the league on their team.

Its just hard to put Rodman above 2 way guys. 2 way guys dont get enough credit is a bigger story. Offense is 90% of what people look at when making those lists. Which is why a guy like Kawhi doesnt win MVPs when he makes a huge impact on both ends compared to a guy like Westbrook or Harden. He also wouldnt be rated above them in future top 50 lists.
 
berimBOWLoh said:
most great coaches preach defense first. offense wins games, defense wins championships type mentality.


you think of all the dynasty type teams. lots of them were offensive af but still had great defenders on their team. Pistons, Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Spurs. Even this latest GS mini era they have 2 of the better defenders in the league on their team.

Its just hard to put Rodman above 2 way guys. 2 way guys dont get enough credit is a bigger story. Offense is 90% of what people look at when making those lists. Which is why a guy like Kawhi doesnt win MVPs when he makes a huge impact on both ends compared to a guy like Westbrook or Harden. He also wouldnt be rated above them in future top 50 lists.
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Of course you need good defense to win championships, but none of those teams had scoring issues either. I just personally feel that in basketball, well executed offense will score on great defense, so I think great offense is a little more valuable than great defense. Rodman is an all-time great defender, so it takes serious offensive production to match him still, but I'll take 20 and 10 with solid defense over 5 and 15 with elite defense. The exception is a team like those Pistons or Bulls or these Warriors who don't need another scorer in that position.

But I absolutely agree that he helps illuminate the 2-way player issue.
 
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