Sanders trailed Hillary by 41pts in May. Now within 7.

[theBLADE1]

Democratic establishment purposefully limiting debates to help Hillary Clinton...

https://www.intellihub.com/undemocratic-democratic-establishment-purposefully-limiting-debates-to-help-hillary-clinton/

I wouldn't even bother anymore bro. These two don't want to listen to any logic.

 

[Lustercross]

This guy would be absolutely destroyed by Trump. Anyone who thinks he can challenge making america great campaign is deluded. All Trump has to do is say he is socialist and he is done

Lol sanders would destroy trump in a debate. Sanders has always destroyed republicans in debates. A quick YouTube search will show you that. And anyways, people have already flung the socialist label at him and his number of supporters keep rising.

 

[Diamond Jim]

One thing that is missing from Bernie's campaign website is foreign policy. Lot of domestic positions but nothing on China, Russia, ISIS, etc. It's easy to bash the billionaire class but I'd like to hear more on foreign issues.

 

[Lustercross]

Sure. Let's say that apples generally cost $1 each. Think about what would happen if there were a law saying that you can't sell apples for less than $0.50 each. Probably it would have very little impact, except it might prevent some really big discounts. If the minimum were $1, that might help some sellers who are getting squeezed. $1.10 also might help. But what if the minimum were raised to $2? That would probably lead to a lot of sellers who get stuck with merchandise and make less money than they were before. Maybe some customers just really love apples or some sellers would be able to get really special ones, but it would hurt your average seller.

It's kind of similar with labor. Generally, I think low-wage workers are underpaid relative to what they'd get in an ideal market because they have less power and less information than their employers. So a minimum wage protects them from getting screwed and as long as it's not too high, it doesn't make it harder for low-leverage workers to find employers. But if it's too high, it can make it harder for them to get work. I think $15 is OK in some parts of the country, but it's probably way too high in others.

I also think that in general we're thinking too much about market incomes when we look to fight poverty. Most people in poverty are either children, elderly, or disabled. To really address low-end inequality, we need more transfer payments.



Huh?

I think corporations can handle $15 mw with how much profit they make. I see it mostly affecting small business but maybe they could get some type of tax breaks for being a small business.

 

[theBLADE1]

One thing that is missing from Bernie's campaign website is foreign policy. Lot of domestic positions but nothing on China, Russia, ISIS, etc. It's easy to bash the billionaire class but I'd like to hear more on foreign issues.

Say no more!

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-foreign-policy-and-national-security/bernie-sanders-on-foreign-policy/

 

[UpaLoompa]

Lol sanders would destroy trump in a debate. Sanders has always destroyed republicans in debates. A quick YouTube search will show you that. And anyways, people have already flung the socialist label at him and his number of supporters keep rising.

I would agree with you except for the fact that Trump doesn't debate.

 

[carlos cadona]

One thing that is missing from Bernie's campaign website is foreign policy. Lot of domestic positions but nothing on China, Russia, ISIS, etc. It's easy to bash the billionaire class but I'd like to hear more on foreign issues.

He's said that he doesn't want America to lead the fight against isis. He essentially wants the Gulf states to get off their ass and do more to fight them.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/30/politics/bernie-sanders-middle-east-quagmire/

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think corporations can handle $15 mw with how much profit they make. I see it mostly affecting small business but maybe they could get some type of tax breaks for being a small business.

It's not corporations I'd worry about. It's whether it would make it harder for some people to find work.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/08/28/us/ap-us-dem-2016-the-latest.html?referrer=

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders says the excitement of rallies will be critical to electing Democrats in 2016.

Sanders is warning party leaders at the Democratic National Committee summer meeting that the party will not retain the White House and recapture the House or Senate "unless we generate excitement and momentum and produce a huge voter turnout."

He tells DNC members he doesn't "mean to insult anyone here," but that type of turnout "will not happen with politics as usual. The same old, same old will not be successful."

That was apparently a reference to former first lady and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, the presumptive front-runner in the party's presidential nominating contest. Clinton has been dogged by questions about her emails and a private server she used as secretary of state.

Sanders says people understand that the nation doesn't need "more establishment politics or establishment economics." He says the nation needs a political movement to "take on the billionaire class" and a movement that challenges the economic and political establishment.

 

[Gervinho]

Lol sanders would destroy trump in a debate. Sanders has always destroyed republicans in debates. A quick YouTube search will show you that. And anyways, people have already flung the socialist label at him and his number of supporters keep rising.

Trump will win this election without speaking about policies. He doesnt need to debate anyone or get into details. He is a super star, he is funny and he is powerful.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

That's just media spin, no? OMG, Clinton's lead has fallen from impossibly large to just very big as the fight has begun! She's struggling! "Frontrunner continues to hold insurmountable lead" is not a headline that drives sales.

But not in Iowa.

Antiestablishmentarianism: Sanders, Trump Surge in New Iowa Poll

Sanders takes 30 percent support, while Clinton draws 37 percent, marking the first time she's dropped below 50 percent in the poll.

Back to the "she runs a bad campaign" point:

On the Democratic side, Clinton's steep decline in support is a case of 2008 deja-vu, pollster J. Ann Selzer told the Des Moines Register.

"This feels like 2008 all over again," she said.

Seven years ago, Clinton held a similarly narrow lead over then-Sen. Barack Obama and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards in October, and Obama surged to an unexpected win late in the race.

In the latest poll, Clinton's lost 20 percent support since May, a troubling trajectory for the candidate heading into the real start of the campaign season this fall.

 

[BVG]

It's not corporations I'd worry about. It's whether it would make it harder for some people to find work.

Cause people are not having that problem now?

You need to make manufacturing at home more feasible and attractive by taxing any goods that come over here that were manufactured across seas using cheap labor.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

Democratic establishment purposefully limiting debates to help Hillary Clinton...

https://www.intellihub.com/undemocratic-democratic-establishment-purposefully-limiting-debates-to-help-hillary-clinton/

No proof of that though. Did someone from the DNC tell you that? I think not. Instead some no name from O' Malleys camp believes that is what is going on.

I wouldn't even bother anymore bro. These two don't want to listen to any logic.

Except that the source he provided is a conspiracy website with ties to Alex Jones. Furthermore, its all speculation. Someone from O' Malleys camp spewing some crazy belief.

Seriously think about what is being said. How will less debates not help a media populist?

Less debates help Bernie and other candidates more than it helps Clinton.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/08/28/us/ap-us-dem-2016-the-latest.html?referrer=

Yeah it means nothing. Hillary is anti-establishment when we compare her to Congress, Billionaire class, media and business elites.also, Bernie Sanders is part of the establishment when compared to many Democrats. Its as if you forget that most Democrats have long supported Bernie's key points.

But not in Iowa.

Antiestablishmentarianism: Sanders, Trump Surge in New Iowa Poll



Back to the "she runs a bad campaign" point:

Who do you support? You can't possibly be a Democrat. Its like your paid to hate on Hillary and Biden who are the two best hopes for a Democratic presidency.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Cause people are not having that problem now?

Er, not really. But is it your idea that if people were having trouble finding work already, making it harder is no big deal?

You need to make manufacturing at home more feasible and attractive by taxing any goods that come over here that were manufactured across seas.

Sigh...

 

[Anung Un Rama]

You are correct, I am not a Democrat.

 

[BVG]

Er, not really. But is it your idea that if people were having trouble finding work already, making it harder is no big deal?



Sigh...

If people go to college and get indebted by tens of thousands of dollars, only to find out that the industry they are now trained for has been sold out over seas...what the fuck do they do now?

Those now "over trained" college grads will need to go work at Walmart because manufacturing is now non existent. Walmart can take the hit of a 15 buck min wage.

To insure employment, manufacturing needs to be attractive again in NA. a NA worker should not be in competition with a Chinese one. That Chinese worker is under a completely different governed society.

Are you seriously doubting that having trades and manufacturing done over seas to be resold back into NA isn't a problem?

 

[skombolis]

I think the power of her name value is undeniable. Her campaign clearly isn't doing something right as every week there is a new post saying she is losing ground in key battleground states. It's almost disrespectful how much she's underestimating Bernie.

In political time, the primaries are like a lifetime away. Granted you rarely see someone make up this much ground in this amount of time but Hilary has made some mistakes and it has caused a temporary backlash. When the big funding push comes during the critical times and her name is out there and in commercials and ads and literature way more than his you will see that gap widen again. Particularly because people have short memories. And eventually they will have to choose who they think is most likely to beat the probable Republican nominee, not who they like best in the Democratic field. Woman voters outnumber men and Hilary is much more likely to get the undecided voters.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

So a minimum wage protects them from getting screwed and as long as it's not too high, it doesn't make it harder for low-leverage workers to find employers. But if it's too high, it can make it harder for them to get work. I think $15 is OK in some parts of the country, but it's probably way too high in others.

I can see the argument here because cost of living in NY and SF are astronomically high compared to the rural south and midwest, for example.

But many of these MW plans are pretty-long term. They ease into $15 (or $13 or whatever) over several years, some around a decade. I think that would give economies time to adjust.

And those living in expensive areas already have a de-facto high MW. From what I've heard, the vast majority of busboys and low-skill workers in NY are already making $10/hour at the least. So going up to $15 over several years would be no big deal.

 

[Jack V Savage]

But not in Iowa.

True.

If you cherry-pick the data, you can come to an incorrect conclusion, while also proving to non-idiots out there that you don't know what you're talking about and/or can't get past your own bias.

 

[UpaLoompa]

But many of these MW plans are pretty-long term. They ease into $15 (or $13 or whatever) over several years, some around a decade. I think that would give economies time to adjust.

I saw a funny right-wing opinion piece about how SF's new high MW was already having an effect, with increased Chipotle prices being the example given. Somehow the author missed the fact that the price increase happened before any wage increase.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Lol @equating Iowa polling data to "cherry picking".

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I saw a funny right-wing opinion piece about how SF's new high MW was already having an effect, with increased Chipotle prices being the example given. Somehow the author missed the fact that the price increase happened before any wage increase.

I think it was Robert Reich that mentioned that competition would cause prices to remain low or to increase insignificantly.

If Chipotle raises prices 25%, customers will simply eat at places that haven't increased. Surely there'll be some restaurants that'll figure out that cutting into their giant profits while keeping customers is better than losing customers to the competition.

Maybe this'll result in the reduction of giant, international chains (Chili's, Olive Garden types) and an increase of regional and local places. Which is perfectly fine by me.

 

[BVG]

Everyone that hates Sanders says "he's just saying sound bytes that people wanna hear and has no intention of changing any of it..."

I mean that's the fucking argument against Sanders. Never mind the fact that every politician in my memory is guilty of that very thing. lol.

Even if Bernie changed just HALF of what he's talking about, the united states win. But the sad part it that everyone knows that he can't and if he tried he would get assassinated.

That's not a reason to not elect Bernie...it's a clear fucking signal that everyone here is aware that American politics is broken, and you all need to fucking fix it.

Me? I like Bernie. I think he's your best option because he's going to hopefully target the corporations. I think the fact that he's old and wants to leave this world starting change is genuine.

Clinton? I don't even know what the fuck she's barking about, or what the focus of her campaign is...but she's your typical lobby purchased demo politician piece of shit.

 

[BVG]

I can see the argument here because cost of living in NY and SF are astronomically high compared to the rural south and midwest, for example.

But many of these MW plans are pretty-long term. They ease into $15 (or $13 or whatever) over several years, some around a decade. I think that would give economies time to adjust.

And those living in expensive areas already have a de-facto high MW. From what I've heard, the vast majority of busboys and low-skill workers in NY are already making $10/hour at the least. So going up to $15 over several years would be no big deal.

I see it more simply;

Most of the part time jobs now that people are working (2 or 3 at a time to stay level) are part of huge corporation pyramids. The idea that mom and pop stores are going to be destroyed...they already are.

So Bernie is saying "fuck you" to the 1 percent. (the assholes that run the corporations) "If you want to move all manufacturing over seas, then the least you assholes can do is pay your part time Americans 15 bucks an hour so they don't have to work 3 jobs just to pay the bills"

 

[Jack V Savage]

Lol @equating Iowa polling data to "cherry picking".

It obviously is. No one is running to be president of Iowa.

Look, man, maybe you're sincere here, but you're sincerely mistaken. Here's a good piece on how to read the race:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...residential-election-polls-how-to-follow.html

I'd add that betting odds are also generally a good way to get a quick overview of the state of the race.

And here's a bit specifically on this race:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/bernie-sanders-youre-no-barack-obama/

 

[Jack V Savage]

If people go to college and get indebted by tens of thousands of dollars, only to find out that the industry they are now trained for has been sold out over seas...what the fuck do they do now?

Not sure what you think that has to do with MW or tariffs...

To insure employment, manufacturing needs to be attractive again in NA. a NA worker should not be in competition with a Chinese one. That Chinese worker is under a completely different governed society.

To ensure full employment, we need to regulate demand. It's doable regardless of the strength of any particular industry.

Are you seriously doubting that having trades and manufacturing done over seas to be resold back into NA isn't a problem?

No more of a problem than the decline of farming employment has been.

And those living in expensive areas already have a de-facto high MW. From what I've heard, the vast majority of busboys and low-skill workers in NY are already making $10/hour at the least. So going up to $15 over several years would be no big deal.

I think it's fine for some places, but what about the other places? I've mentioned many times before, though it is still not widely appreciated, that poverty in America is largely a result of us having a market-based economy (with some groups--children, the elderly, and the disabled, and to a lesser extent young adults--being very vulnerable to not getting above-poverty level wages from the market). For the rest, one of the big holes is collapsed regional economies. Whether its towns where there isn't enough capital and talent around to drive sufficient economic activity or cities that were heavily reliant on an industry that has collapsed. A too-high national MW would hit those areas particularly hard.

What I would like to see in terms of the economy is the elimination or near-elimination of post-transfer poverty, while also providing realistic opportunities for advancement and a higher overall standard of living (and I'd like to see labor's share of national income rise relative to capital's share). I think that a $15/hr MW works against that.

 

[TSO]

She's a terrible candidate and she doesn't run a good campaign.

Her forced renewable energy stance is a positive though.

I will probably vote for Sanders though.

 

[AFewDollarsMore]

Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion

http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511


ha ha ha. old goat won't be around long enough to pay for any of it.

 

[BVG]

The other thing I like hearing is Bernie keeps refusing to cut into Hillary even though he doesn't agree with some of her policies. People interviewing him keep trying to get him to trash on her, but he just wants to keep on the discussion of the problems with AMerica.

 

[BVG]

Not sure what you think that has to do with MW or tariffs...

...

 

[TSO]

The other thing I like hearing is Bernie keeps refusing to cut into Hillary even though he doesn't agree with some of her policies. People interviewing him keep trying to get him to trash on her, but he just wants to keep on the discussion of the problems with AMerica.

That's a huge selling point for me.

 

[BVG]

Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion

http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511


ha ha ha. old goat won't be around long enough to pay for any of it.

Bravo though and successfully being duped by a smear campaign!

This was almost immediately debunked.

http://usuncut.com/politics/top-economist-says-bernies-plan-will-actually-save-the-us-5-trillion/
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/15/9330931/bernie-sanders-spending-cost

You may as well just stick to "that old guy with funny hair" and just hold that against him. At least it's true. He is old, and he does have funny hair!

 

[Jack V Savage]

The other thing I like hearing is Bernie keeps refusing to cut into Hillary even though he doesn't agree with some of her policies. People interviewing him keep trying to get him to trash on her, but he just wants to keep on the discussion of the problems with AMerica.

You wouldn't know it from listening to their hardcore supporters, but there really isn't much of a difference between them in terms of policy.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

And this is equally typical of your slimy tactics. What did I actually comment on? Your belief that electing exactly one president in history who wasn't white or male (who, as I mentioned, is actually one of the best ever) constitutes not taking the presidency seriously and "suggesting rotating non-whites and woman out of some ridiculous sense of fairness." It doesn't even occur to you that I said that because I believe that you are wrong, and that you are, in fact, wrong. God forbid, because then you'd have to think about it, and maybe realize that actually that you have a rather serious, perhaps unconscious, prejudice there. It has to be either me pretending to believe something to "skew perception" (like, seriously, WTF--is that how you talk to people in real life? You're seriously lacking in basic human decency) or I don't even know how you reach the bizarre anti-semite conclusion. You're pretending that I said the same thing you did--that it's somehow de-legitimizing the presidency to not exclusively elect white makes--but I said no such thing.

Lol @ you doubling down on your bullshit.

Here is the conversation that was being had before you hacked your way in.

Like really another Old white man who promises us the world? Psh we have all heard that crap before. The truth is Bernie has had a largely failure of a Senate career and has not done much except cater to old white people in his underpopulated state.

Lets give a non-white male or how about a woman a chance for once?

How about a Jew?


How about taking the office of POTUS more seriously than suggesting rotating non-whites and woman out of some ridiculous sense of fairness. I'm more comfortable with the best candidate for America holding that office regardless of race, gender, or creed.

Wow. We've had exactly one president in our entire history that wasn't a white male, and he happens to be one of the best presidents we've ever had, and retards are already whining about how it's not fair to white males.

No Jack. I merely replied to SouthoftheAnus' racist and childish opinion of the office of the POTUS. The White House isn't Little League where everybody gets to play and a trophy. You're either the best or one of the best candidates or you're not. If that candidate happens to be black, female, Muslim, or Jew then I'm fine with it. You obviously take issue with this sentiment as well as the idea that a Jew could be POTUS. I guess Ben Carson can count on your support.
How about Ben Carson/Sarah Palin Ticket?

 

[BVG]

You wouldn't know it from listening to their hardcore supporters, but there really isn't much of a difference between them in terms of policy.

She actually comes across as more of a lobbyist shill than Bernie.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

he's a b team troll at that

When you consider how long he's been at it and how many people buy into his bullshit, I think you have to give him an A.

The fact that posters of the caliber of you, Glennrod, Anung, second sight, Cable, etc. are always attacking me is a bigger compliment than the praise of the good posters here.

LOL! @ playing the victim card. Ever.

 

[Jack V Savage]

She actually comes across as more of a lobbyist shill than Bernie.

That doesn't make sense. A lobbyist would try to influence her. But anyway, yeah, there isn't much policy difference. Some people just put a lot of emphasis on public image.

 

[Jack V Savage]

No Jack. I merely replied to SouthoftheAnus' racist and childish opinion of the office of the POTUS. The White House isn't Little League where everybody gets to play and a trophy.

And is that happening? Because we've had a single president in history who isn't a white male, all of sudden you guys are acting like the system is suddenly broken. It's pathetic that in 2015, people with your mindset are still out there dragging the nation down.

You obviously take issue with this sentiment as well as the idea that a Jew could be POTUS. I guess Ben Carson can count on your support.
How about Ben Carson/Sarah Palin Ticket?

I take issue with your expressed position that only white males are truly qualified to be president. I think Carson and Palin are terrible candidates, but unlike you, I base that on their qualifications, values, and expressed positions. You won't find me ever saying anything like what you did.

When you consider how long he's been at it and how many people buy into his bullshit, I think you have to give him an A.

Yes, yes. We've heard it all before. No one can possibly just think that you are a poor thinker and a lout. Everyone who claims to is just pretending. Again, look objectively at the people agreeing with you here. The worst and dumbest posters in the group, without exception.

LOL! @ playing the victim card. Ever.

Meh. You can't deny that you just follow me around and try to harass me. And never engage in issue-based discussion. It doesn't bother me at all. I welcome the hatred of your type (glennrod, second sight, SPF50, etc.).

 

[BVG]

That doesn't make sense. A lobbyist would try to influence her. But anyway, yeah, there isn't much policy difference. Some people just put a lot of emphasis on public image.

Shill;

an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.

So far as I know...she hasn't said much about lobbyists (not nearly to the extent Bernie is focusing on them) Which is pretty much just accepting their part in America's downward slide into corruption and middle class ruin.

In my head by not shitting on lobbyists at every turn, you are basically promoting them.

And so far as I know Hillary is still taking donations from privatized prisons...yes?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

And is that happening? Because we've had a single president in history who isn't a white male, all of sudden you guys are acting like the system is suddenly broken. It's pathetic that in 2015, people with your mindset are still out there dragging the nation down.



I take issue with your expressed position that only white males are truly qualified to be president. I think Carson and Palin are terrible candidates, but unlike you, I base that on their qualifications, values, and expressed positions. You won't find me ever saying anything like what you did.

So many lies in one post. You should be ashamed of yourself for being a racist, anti-Semite, and just being an overall liar and coward. You are a truly dispicable human being.

I never said any of this bullshit and my comments are right above you for everybody to read.

I take issue with your insidious trolling, your lack of reading comprehension, and your lack of decency.