Social Sanders proposes more generous single payer bill

[japman40]

Isn't this the study that makes the assumption from the get go that somehow a universal plan magically cuts healthcare costs from hospitals and clinics by 40% ?

Even this here, 3 trillion a year, that's literally doubling the federal budget. There's no way to pay for that on a payroll tax like offhand mention Bernie had of 7.5%. US brings in 1.7 trillion in payroll taxes. They'd have to triple my taxes for this.

That report shows a 5 trillion dollar saving over 10 years, and alot of the savings come from cutting administrative cost by a lot, among other things. Bernie's proposal shows how he'll pay for it, and no he's not tripling your taxes. I'll be cheaper because you won't have private insurance premiums, copays, or high deductions to pay.

You can read the synopses in the report

 

[Seano]

The Umass study shows I'll cost between 28-32 trillion over 10 years. Which is cheaper than our current system. However I don't think it included some of the other extra stuff Bernie placed in his current proposal like substance abuse, vision.

https://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/article/depth-analysis-team-umass-amherst

“As of 2017, the U.S. was spending about $3.24 trillion on personal health care—about 17 percent of total GDP. Meanwhile, 9 percent of U.S. residents have no insurance and 26 percent are underinsured—they are unable to access needed care because of prohibitively high costs. Other high-income countries spend an average of about 40 percent less per person and produce better health outcomes. Medicare for All could reduce total health care spending in the U.S. by nearly 10 percent, to $2.93 trillion, while creating stable access to good care for all U.S. residents.”

Do those #s take into account all the people that get health care through work and pay for it themselves? Seems like some of those #s would change dramatically if health insurers disappear.

 

[Madmick]

What’s the tax increase
Last estimate was 3 trillion a year so even taxing those tippy tippy top folks at 100% were going to be 2.9 trillion short

Last estimate was $3.2-$3.6 trillion a year.

The notion of covering people with disabilities in a nation where fat middle-aged men all seem to suffer from the "took an arrow to the knee" syndrome is a nightmare. Socializing health care irrespective of employment...what could go wrong?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

That report shows a 5 trillion dollar saving over 10 years, and alot of the savings come from cutting administrative cost by a lot, among other things. Bernie's proposal shows how he'll pay for it, and no he's not tripling your taxes. I'll be cheaper because you won't have private insurance premiums, copays, or high deductions to pay.

You can read the synopses in the report

As someone with over 5 years working in healthcare billing, I can confidently say my office could cut at least 50% of staff under Sanderscare. Large medical groups like mine employ people whose jobs are to argue with health insurance company representatives, figure out how private insurance plans are to be billed, and call patients to collect out of pocket charges. The cost of these positions contributes to our nation's annual healthcare bill.

 

[japman40]

Yea it could be a substantial increase. But aside from that, if he proposes a 7.5% tax, is that in addition to the taxes I already pay? I mean almost 10% of someone's salary is quite a bit.

That's the employer tax not yours

 

[japman40]

Do those #s take into account all the people that get health care through work and pay for it themselves? Seems like some of those #s would change dramatically if health insurers disappear.

You'll be paying the government thru payroll tax instead of private insurance companies. Yes things would change dramatically if the leech private insurance companies get pushed out. Even the right wing study by Mercada showed I'll be cheaper.

 

[djacobox372]

Aside from my feelings against this as I don't want government to be given that amount of control over my life,

I can't believe corporations aren't all about universal systems. They'd no longer have to pay for Healthcare for employees, and we all know that no longer existant expenditure would not be going into the salaries for the likes of you and me.

Corporations like providing healthcare because it gives them power and leverage over you and your family, and it keeps you from taking risks in the job market that could lead to competition for them.

Ever consider that your fear of government control should also extend to corporate control?

 

[BarryDillon]

Why do Canadians come to America for medical procedures and pay out of pocket? Likely because of long wait times.

That's just a bullshit line you bought.

 

[BarryDillon]

He hasn't answered my question of how much will this cost, and how will the plan be paid for.

If he's answering my question with an attacking dodge, why can't I do the same?

Payroll taxes. It's in the plan.

 

[Seano]

You'll be paying the government thru payroll tax instead of private insurance companies. Yes things would change dramatically if the leech private insurance companies get pushed out. Even the right wing study by Mercada showed I'll be cheaper.

I can't help but not trust it. I don't like having no choice.

 

[BarryDillon]

Providing health benefits has financial advantages for corporations (which is why so many do it). For example, if they pay you $100k per year and another $20k on your health insurance they'll pay payroll taxes on the $100k. If they just simply paid you $120k they're paying payroll taxes on the whole thing.

There are other costs associated with salaries, like 401k match, which don't include healthcare benefits.

The biggest thing is the power shift that would occur with Universal Health Care. Workers would be vastly more empowered in negotiations than they are now. Capital doesn't want that at all.

So many people are stuck because they depend on their benefits. It they had those job or no job, their negotiating position is incredibly strengthened.

 

[cincymma79]

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/10/18304448/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all

Ok those proposals aren’t even ball park close. So again how much are my taxes going up

 

[cincymma79]

Last estimate was $3.2-$3.6 trillion a year.

The notion of covering people with disabilities in a nation where fat middle-aged men all seem to suffer from the "took an arrow to the knee" syndrome is a nightmare. Socializing health care irrespective of employment...what could go wrong?

Cortez’s 70% tax rate was estimated to bring in 70 billion. So if that’s right 100% would be 100 billion. So again we’re basically 3 trillion short here.

 

[japman40]

I can't help but not trust it. I don't like having no choice.

You still have a choice on which doctor to use or what hospital to go to. You don't need a choice in which insurance provider to pick because you'll have everything covered.

I'd rather have everything covered and know that I won't go bankrupt if I or my family gets hurt than have "choices" of crappy insurance providers that have caps and high deductibles, copays that don't cover everything. What kind of choice is that?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

Ok those proposals aren’t even ball park close. So again how much are my taxes going up

You would pay 4%, your employer 7.5%.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Payroll taxes. It's in the plan.

We currently bring in 1.1 trillion dollars in payroll taxes

https://www.statista.com/statistics/216928/us-government-revenues-by-category/

Umass' study predicts this will cost us 3 trillion dollars annually

Tripling my taxes does not at all appeal to me, or anyone I would imagine. Is that really the plan? To triple the taxes on Americans and murder the middle class?

 

[cincymma79]

You would pay 4%, your employer 7.5%.

That’s not even remotely close to enough
But this is basically a Swiss model copy? I’m fine with that if they can make it work

Ubi would do be same thing and a vat might cover it

 

[Seano]

You still have a choice on which doctor to use or what hospital to go to. You don't need a choice in which insurance provider to pick because you'll have everything covered.

I'd rather have everything covered and know that I won't go bankrupt if I or my family gets hurt than have "choices" of crappy insurance providers that have caps and high deductibles, copays that don't cover everything. What kind of choice is that?

Who says costs stay under control? People will have no choice but to pay what the gov't tells them.

 

[AlexDB9]

Canada, where costs are half the US, where I spent a month in the hospital and left owing nothing, where there's still a private option if you so desire, which takes care of the most basic needs of the people. Perfect? Fuck no. Better than going bankrupt? Absofuckinglutely.

K so The 10% of Canadian families who earn an average income of $60,850 will pay an average of $5,516 for public health care insurance, and the families among the top 10% of income earners in Canada will pay $37,361. Health care in Canada is not free and that’s my whole point. What I showed you is actual free no tax healthcare, that’s the reality

Now if Canada had a population of 327M instead of 37M good luck making it work buddy. That’s just it. I’m not convinced with the income percentage instead of the population argument either. In Cuba we have actual free health care and all that leads to is shitty doctors and even shittier care. There’s no reason for advancement or innovations, I’m not sure why it’s hard to believe people want to get paid for their work

 

[AlexDB9]

How are we supposed to afford universal healthcare when the green new deal will cost like 90 trillion anyways?