Social Sanders proposes more generous single payer bill

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Do you understand that we already spend more per capita on health care - to cover a lower percentage of the population - than do other industrialized nations with single-payer systems?

How many times does this need to be pointed out in the national debate? Or is the willful ignorance some type of intentional right-wing disinformation strategy?

Right wingers are the most dishonest people on earth.

They will constantly peddle the same lies, talking points over and over and over.

This is how you have regular working folks thinking trickle down economics works for them. Almost 40 years of lies


These people also act like it’s the pre internet boom 90s and people can’t look shit up online

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Why do Canadians come to America for medical procedures and pay out of pocket? Likely because of long wait times.

Only rich ones do to skip lines for non-critical procedures.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Do you understand that we already spend more per capita on health care - to cover a lower percentage of the population - than do other industrialized nations with single-payer systems?

How many times does this need to be pointed out in the national debate? Or is the willful ignorance some type of intentional right-wing disinformation strategy?

The problem isn't the who is paying for Healthcare, it's the massive up charging for procedures/visits/drugs by hospitals and Healthcare companies

Shifting the paying party to the gov doesn't solve anything. It's like the unlimited student loans to solve the rising college costs. Creates more problems than it solves.

I much prefer a discussion around fixing crazy hospital bills, even if it means price fixing for common procedures and supplies. We've all seen the screen shots of bills where a bag of saline solution (aka salt water) is $500+ bucks. This doesn't solve that.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

The problem isn't the who is paying for Healthcare, it's the massive up charging for procedures/visits/drugs by hospitals and Healthcare companies

Shifting the paying party to the gov doesn't solve anything. It's like the unlimited student loans to solve the rising college costs. Creates more problems than it solves.

I much prefer a discussion around fixing crazy hospital bills, even if it means price fixing for common procedures and supplies. We've all seen the screen shots of bills where a bag of saline solution (aka salt water) is $500+ bucks. This doesn't solve that.

You’re still dodging his point. Took 3 full paragraphs to do so too

Very slick

 

[kpt018]

Also, if this will be similar to Canadas system, can anyone explain why many Canadians come to America and pay out of pocket for medical procedures?

America does have good medical care, especially if you have the funds. Also, Canada has a low number of doctors per capita compared to other rich countries.

These are not insurmountable problems for America.

 

[kpt018]

You know, if the right doesn't like the policy ideas for healthcare coming from the left they could, like, you know, come up with a fucking alternative?

 

[HockeyBjj]

You’re still dodging his point. Took 3 full paragraphs to do so too

Very slick

He hasn't answered my question of how much will this cost, and how will the plan be paid for.

If he's answering my question with an attacking dodge, why can't I do the same?

 

[HockeyBjj]

You know, if the right doesn't like the policy ideas for healthcare coming from the left they could, like, you know, come up with a fucking alternative?

This here I do agree with. 2016-2018 Rs extremely dropped the ball with this, in almost unprecedented fashion, and it's why we'll most likely end up with some sort of lefty plan

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

He hasn't answered my question of how much will this cost, and how will the plan be paid for.

If he's answering my question with an attacking dodge, why can't I do the same?

He already told you we spend more now, which has been verified by countless sources, academics, think tanks, whatever the case may be.

So whatever the cost will be it will be lower than what we have now. Let that soak in For a minute.

 

[BudKing8806]

Only rich ones do to skip lines for non-critical procedures.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[kpt018]

Aside from my feelings against this as I don't want government to be given that amount of control over my life,

I can't believe corporations aren't all about universal systems. They'd no longer have to pay for Healthcare for employees, and we all know that no longer existant expenditure would not be going into the salaries for the likes of you and me.

Providing health benefits has financial advantages for corporations (which is why so many do it). For example, if they pay you $100k per year and another $20k on your health insurance they'll pay payroll taxes on the $100k. If they just simply paid you $120k they're paying payroll taxes on the whole thing.

There are other costs associated with salaries, like 401k match, which don't include healthcare benefits.

 

[kpt018]

This here I do agree with. 2016-2018 Rs extremely dropped the ball with this, in almost unprecedented fashion, and it's why we'll most likely end up with some sort of lefty plan

Longer than that. But it would be great for the country if they participated instead of obstructed progress.

 

[japman40]

Aside from my feelings against this as I don't want government to be given that amount of control over my life,

I can't believe corporations aren't all about universal systems. They'd no longer have to pay for Healthcare for employees, and we all know that no longer existant expenditure would not be going into the salaries for the likes of you and me.

Sanders proposes a 7.5% employer based payroll tax, and 4% household premium tax on employee.

 

[HockeyBjj]

He already told you we spend more now, which has been verified by countless sources, academics, think tanks, whatever the case may be.

So whatever the cost will be it will be lower than what we have now. Let that soak in For a minute.

Having a policy based purely on speculation that the grass is greaner sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I'll need actual numbers to support any plan. Bernie and other socialists make all these promises, and never actually back up what they'll cost. Just a Well it has to be cheaper, right???

 

[BudKing8806]

America does have good medical care, especially if you have the funds. Also, Canada has a low number of doctors per capita compared to other rich countries.

These are not insurmountable problems for America.

I would like to believe that. However, that's what is said before all new plans are put into place. You hear stories and people brush it off as "oh that would never happen in America". Poor people already get Medicaid so I don't really understand who is without medical care under the current system.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Keep telling yourself that.

What evidence do you have to suggest this is rampant?

You do know about Murkans in border states making fake Provincial Health cards to scam free health in Ontario for the last 20 or so years right?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

I would like to believe that. However, that's what is said before all new plans are put into place. You hear stories and people brush it off as "oh that would never happen in America". Poor people already get Medicaid so I don't really understand who is without medical care under the current system.

The guideline is so low most poor people dont qualify for Medicaid. You basically have to be a part-time worker at Mcdonalds. Poor who work full-time are over the income guidelines.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Having a policy based purely on speculation that the grass is greaner sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I'll need actual numbers to support any plan. Bernie and other socialists make all these promises, and never actually back up what they'll cost. Just a Well it has to be cheaper, right???

Have you been asleep all this time or just ignorant.

How many Fn studies need to be done that show a universal HC plan for the country would be cost effective.

Even the Cato institute said the same and they’re a think tank made up of libertarian lunatics who hate government.

 

[BudKing8806]

What evidence do you have to suggest this is rampant?

You do know about Murkans in border states making fake Provincial Health cards to scam free health in Ontario for the last 20 or so years right?

The poor folks have Medicaid. Which is actually better than Medicare. So who is without healthcare currently other than people who don't qualify for Medicaid that CHOOSE not to have a private insurance?

 

[BudKing8806]

The guideline is so low most poor people dont qualify for Medicaid. You basically have to be a part-time worker at Mcdonalds. Poor who work full-time are over the income guidelines.

Then why can't we just look at raising the income requirements for Medicaid instead of full blown Medicare for all? That's seems like the better idea imo.