Sanda/Sanshou vs Muay Thai?

[nonsense1989]

I am curious about the Sanda stance though. It seem they stand more sideways than square. Comes with its own pros and cons standing like that. And lol at the crowd screaming at the top of their lungs for the Sanda guy.

majority of the Chinese Sanshou guys have been taught in a school where one of their coaches is a TKD guy... hence it explains their tendency to stand square, use sidekicks, chambers their knee in the roundhouse

 

[Payak]

such a thing asrespect where i came from, can all talk and agree to disagree without his rude talk.
not about punches to the head, like tyson biting holyfield,pushed to it, hate people being rude, no need.
if he rude to my face i will respect that..but im not biased, if i am why i study grappling

 

[Payak]

you have a pic on your avatar mahoney, he was same attitude as me, but to normal people very sweet man

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

such a thing asrespect where i came from, can all talk and agree to disagree without his rude talk.
not about punches to the head, like tyson biting holyfield,pushed to it, hate people being rude, no need.
if he rude to my face i will respect that..but im not biased, if i am why i study grappling

He said you were being bias. Which you have been called out on regularly given its obvious then you explode in a hissy fit and essentially call him a "whiteboy."

also lets not forget buffalo ****

 

[Charlitos1988]

I think

and I'm going out on a limb here, so bear with me

I think....

If a Muay Thai fighter and a Sanda fighter fought under Muay Thai rules...

The Muay Thai fighter would most likely win...

BUT!!!!

If a Muay Thai fighter and a Sanda fighter fought under Sanda rules...

The Sanda fighter would most likely win.

CRAZY I know, but think about it for a second~!

Also, shit thread.

you forgot the 2 most important scenarios:

MMA and street fight :icon_idea

 

[Hotora86]

you forgot the 2 most important scenarios:

MMA and street fight :icon_idea

Jeez, way to NOT get the point.

 

[Charlitos1988]

problem with Sanshou/Sanda: it's not very popular anywhere... even in China, it doesn't have a very big following in a capitalistic sense. So being its champion doesn't require you to go through such tough selection. What irks me alot is that the Chinese government overhypes Sanshou superiority through very cheeky means (the way Sanshou vs MT matches are set up to favour Sanshou guys lots)
I've fought in amateur sanshou, and to me, it's a blast. The rules are very fast pace. I was very successful at it, despite never training for it. Whatever I am weak at (ground work, extended clinch, Sanshou doesn't allow)
I was preparing lots for muay thai fights, and I also wrestled under an Olympian as my coach
A few of my friends in Canada practice MT but competes in Sanshou in the off season to get extra sparring/competition times. Fun too. But it's hard to take the sport seriously when you can win at a high level, without having training in it

but you trained wrestling also, but how about pure muay thai guys against sanda takedowns? I mean if you don't train takedowns your body doesn't resist them :icon_neut

 

[killer3000ad]

Buakaw actually fought a Sanshou guy once under Sanshou rules. Fight starts at 4.50.


Note that Buakaw actually keeps his hand lower alot here as he's prepared to deal with the takedowns and throws.

 

[nonsense1989]

but you trained wrestling also, but how about pure muay thai guys against sanda takedowns? I mean if you don't train takedowns your body doesn't resist them :icon_neut

well, sanshou itself isn't a style, it's a set of rules in competition. So in a sense, it's kinda "mixed" martial art. say, Wing Chun is a style of martial arts, Sanshou is the sport...
So if you match a MT guy against a sanshou guy in a sanshou match, it's like matching powerlifter and weightlifter in a weightlifting contest

 

[cowciller]

The guys in the UFC are elite Muay Thai fighters? No matter how many times I read it, I can't convince myself that those words are actually written in your post. Have you ever watched Muay Thai? Or even kickboxing, for that matter?

You also demonstrate a popular and fundamental misunderstanding about what the "Muay Thai clinch" is. It's not just a double collar tie. It's a whole system of using upper body wrestling to set up sweeps, throws, and strikes. As if Muay Thai guys don't use hooks and arm control in their clinching. You need to watch something other than the UFC and see the whole world of striking science and technique that's out there before you say something like you just did.

It depends on what you define as elite. I don't see elite as being the very best in the world or even top 100. I just see it as guys who do it very very well. And clearly guys in the UFC do it very very well, I never said that they did it as well as top MT guys. Elite isn't necessarily the top 10 guys.

 

[Bay Area]

majority of the Chinese Sanshou guys have been taught in a school where one of their coaches is a TKD guy... hence it explains their tendency to stand square, use sidekicks, chambers their knee in the roundhouse

You mean they stand more sideways then square. Sanda seems more of my cup of tea as I have a tkd background.

A question: do you know the orgin of Sanda? I hear different things like its a thousand years old like the other kung fu styles. Then I hear it is a recent development after constant loses to the Thais. And if it is ancient, why does it look so different from the other kung fu styles? Anyone?

 

[nonsense1989]

You mean they stand more sideways then square. Sanda seems more of my cup of tea as I have a tkd background.

A question: do you know the orgin of Sanda? I hear different things like its a thousand years old like the other kung fu styles. Then I hear it is a recent development after constant loses to the Thais. And if it is ancient, why does it look so different from the other kung fu styles? Anyone?

yea, just a typo... i mean to say they stand sideway... thanks for the correction

Sanshou/Sanda started around a little bit before the cultural revolution, as I recall. It's pretty much their version of Gracie's challenge... People of different styles come together on a platform, called "lei tai" and beat each other up.
As the Communist took over, all forms of martial arts were forbidden. Then somehow, the government allows it again.
So now, in wushu (literally meaning martial art) competition, there are 2 categories: tao lu (which is them showing off their forms/patterns) and sanshou/sanda.
At first, it was called sanda. san=free, da=fight. But its name was changed since it has such brutal and violent name, so they change the name to sanshou. shou=hand.

The reason it looks so different from other chinese style, is because now, in China, most fighters in sanshou are athletes first.... So they're recruited by the government, and the government hire different coaches and come up with a very specific training doctrine. While other styles of chinese martial arts have been passed down by family, traditions

Hope that helps

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

You mean they stand more sideways then square. Sanda seems more of my cup of tea as I have a tkd background.

A question: do you know the orgin of Sanda? I hear different things like its a thousand years old like the other kung fu styles. Then I hear it is a recent development after constant loses to the Thais. And if it is ancient, why does it look so different from the other kung fu styles? Anyone?

Here ya go


http://nysanda.blog.com/2011/11/22/what-is-sanshou-san-da/

 

[Jukai]

yea, just a typo... i mean to say they stand sideway... thanks for the correction

Sanshou/Sanda started around a little bit before the cultural revolution, as I recall. It's pretty much their version of Gracie's challenge... People of different styles come together on a platform, called "lei tai" and beat each other up.
As the Communist took over, all forms of martial arts were forbidden. Then somehow, the government allows it again.
So now, in wushu (literally meaning martial art) competition, there are 2 categories: tao lu (which is them showing off their forms/patterns) and sanshou/sanda.
At first, it was called sanda. san=free, da=fight. But its name was changed since it has such brutal and violent name, so they change the name to sanshou. shou=hand.

The reason it looks so different from other chinese style, is because now, in China, most fighters in sanshou are athletes first.... So they're recruited by the government, and the government hire different coaches and come up with a very specific training doctrine. While other styles of chinese martial arts have been passed down by family, traditions

Hope that helps

I'm sure you're right, but I'm living with a person who comes straight from China and she has a few Chinese friends. All of them refer to the actual bouts we see as 'Sanda.' When I asked what Sanshou was, there was some confusion about it, but the general consensus was that it was a lighter form of competition like Taekwondo. Some refered to the amateur competitions as Sanshou, others said they were both Sanda.
So, guess what I'm saying is, Sanda is the prevelant way to refer to the competitions. Sanshou is a confusing and perhaps dying word.

 

[nonsense1989]

they can be used interchangeably. most people in china who don't practice/follow the sport closely would think it as sanda, mostly because the most popular show for sanda/sanshou is sanda wong (king of sanda)...just like most people in the west refer to mma shows ultimate fighting

 

[Jukai]

they can be used interchangeably. most people in china who don't practice/follow the sport closely would think it as sanda, mostly because the most popular show for sanda/sanshou is sanda wong (king of sanda)...just like most people in the west refer to mma shows ultimate fighting

I'm sure they can be, but Sanda seems to be the prevelant term. Especially with the 'soft' connotations of Sanshou.

 

[Bay Area]

Here ya go


http://nysanda.blog.com/2011/11/22/what-is-sanshou-san-da/

thanks. So I guess the story where the Chinese kunfu guys getting beat up by thais and inventing sanda is false.

 

[Discipulus]

It depends on what you define as elite. I don't see elite as being the very best in the world or even top 100. I just see it as guys who do it very very well. And clearly guys in the UFC do it very very well, I never said that they did it as well as top MT guys. Elite isn't necessarily the top 10 guys.

elite
[ih-leet, ey-leet]  
noun
1. ( often used with a plural verb ) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

...what? Competent and elite aren't the same thing. And there's a strong argument for saying that the majority of guys in the UFC would not be considered even very competent in Muay Thai. Who does it very, very well? Anderson? Jon Jones, maybe? Jose Aldo? It's hard to put together a list of more than thirty or so names of UFC fighters that strike in a Muay Thai style very, very well. Remember, a huge portion of the fighters in the UFC are grapplers first and foremost, and their striking really tends to show that.

 

[Jukai]

Outside of Aldo and Condit, I can't think of any high-level UFC fighter who I would say has "above average" Muay Thai. Maybe Cerrone. Anderson Silva has always had a lot of TKD qualities and now he's moving away from Muay Thai and focusing more on pure boxing. Jon Jones is more arms and legs. There just isn't a lot of great 'pure' Muay Thai in the UFC.

 

[Bay Area]

Agree on Anderson Silvia. He just does whatever he wants in there. Not much he does looks like MT. Amir Sodollah is prob the closest. Alves too. Shogun... I don't know what you would call his style.