Russia vs. United States - Which country has the best MMA fighters (Finals O/T)

[Takes Two To Tango]

Since it's pretty much a close call in the last poll. We're down to two nations, which one has the best MMA fighters in your opinion?

Which 3 countries has the best MMA fighters overall?

Since the beginning to now. Which countries produces the best fighters? (I'll consider adding other countries.) I pick: USA Brazil Russia

forums.sherdog.com

Russia vs. Brazil vs. United States - Which country has the best MMA fighters? (The Finals)

Continuation to this thread. https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/which-3-countries-has-the-best-mma-fighters-overall.4337762/ Which has the best fighters? Please vote, thanks.

forums.sherdog.com

Please vote, thanks.

Spoiler

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[AL-Tappo McSnappo]

Since it's pretty much a close call in the last poll. We're down to two nations, which one has the best MMA fighters in your opinion?

Which 3 countries has the best MMA fighters overall?

Since the beginning to now. Which countries produces the best fighters? (I'll consider adding other countries.) I pick: USA Brazil Russia

forums.sherdog.com

Russia vs. Brazil vs. United States - Which country has the best MMA fighters? (The Finals)

Continuation to this thread. https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/which-3-countries-has-the-best-mma-fighters-overall.4337762/ Which has the best fighters? Please vote, thanks.

forums.sherdog.com

Please vote, thanks.

Spoiler

@HHJ @JKS @TheChance @TCE @ASUThermo @flynny @NicholasJBasile @Reach4theSky @moreorless87 @CombatCyborg @cheesus @Ares Black @Tweak896 @tat2man5k
@HI SCOTT NEWMAN @BoomCannon @balkanbomber85 @WoozyFailGuy @FrankMirFan89 @Bubba Kid @ulteriormotive @Spiderbite @arathans @Bobby Boulders @Forever Young
@fortheo @HCS @sonhow @Pitier of Fools @BJJ4Tone @jko1355 @Psychojoe86 @Deceasedxo @Nobru @BlankaPresident @Harlekin @SalvadorAllende @Caicara @Sanctus
@Fox by the Sea @sutherland @gosuasus @RockyLockridge @JudoThrowFiasco @omawho402 @PRESIDENT TRUMP @Pequeño Corey @Mammothman @OwNeDUp @Diet Butcher
@ssBaldy @Striker Fox @vlz @Vqtanh1403 @HuskySamoan @TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle @Jon's Drug Dealer @Amianto @25 characters @Eternalwarriorking @chuckspadina
@Hassan Mouzine @SL1200 @El Panteron @Joshua Judd @Colemanstove @Hellowhosthat @Chael_Sonnen @Goutfather @Koala @tornado362 @Sticko @fprado @fedorthegoat777
@TJ Dillashank @Young Calf Kick @HunsonAbadeer @andgonsil @AL-Tappo McSnappo @PEDRO IVO RUSSO MIRANDA @geardo @F15 @ShaoKahn34 @Duke Kensington @Brigfa2
@TOMFDJYEDH @notmyrealname @GiganticMeat @AmonTobin @Matt Brown's Elbow @MalhadomedoEv @Elegant @Greyscale @Lucas Coradini @Truk @Snarly @Estudante
@SkYr0x @WAGNER CARRETTA CAZOTTO @Slaikkaaja @sfblue @Duke Kensington @that Indian

That is a hard choice, but the USA is my pick, I think Russia produces very high quality fighters but less than USA does, also everyone comes to the USA to get better.

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

That is a hard choice, but the USA is my pick, I think Russia produces very high quality fighters but less than USA does, also everyone comes to the USA to get better.

That's a valid point.

 

[HuskySamoan]

It's close, but if I look at the amateur circuit like the IMMAFs largely dominated by Russia and Central Asia, or the fact that so many Russians started wrestling or some form of martial arts as young children and were competing in Pankration, Hand to Hand combat, kickboxing, amateur MMA, Sambo etc. At younger ages on average too than US fighters. Beyond this, relative to the number of fighters from their respective countries in the UFC and PFL/Bellator, Russians outperform US fighters in success rates.

This question can be interpreted lots of ways, but I'd say if you took the top 15 best Russians and best Americans in each weight class and had them all fight, Russia does come out on top. What does that bracket look like? Hard to say exactly but I would considerably favor Russia. As for young rising talent? I think Russia produces the better prospects right now too, they just don't get signed by the UFC.

 

[ssBaldy]

That is a hard choice, but the USA is my pick, I think Russia produces very high quality fighters but less than USA does, also everyone comes to the USA to get better.

I agree. To have the exact answer we would have to do a lot of research and maths to get accurate per capita numbers but screw that, honestly.
The only thing I can probably argue with is "everyone goes to the USA to get better", as I would think it is not country-specific, main reason is the USA is the biggest MMA scene today, a lot of events are held in the USA, hence many of the good fighters train there for logistics and efficiency. But a lot of western fighters would benefit from doing a wrestling camp in Dagestan or a sambo camp in Moscow. Almost any heavyweight would profit from training with Volkov or Pavlovich who mostly train in Russia, for example. It is a good idea to train with different (competent) teams in general.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

It's close, but if I look at the amateur circuit like the IMMAFs largely dominated by Russia and Central Asia, or the fact that so many Russians started wrestling or some form of martial arts as young children and were competing in Pankration, Hand to Hand combat, kickboxing, amateur MMA, Sambo etc. At younger ages on average too than US fighters. Beyond this, relative to the number of fighters from their respective countries in the UFC and PFL/Bellator, Russians outperform US fighters in success rates.

This question can be interpreted lots of ways, but I'd say if you took the top 15 best Russians and best Americans in each weight class and had them all fight, Russia does come out on top. What does that bracket look like? Hard to say exactly but I would considerably favor Russia. As for young rising talent? I think Russia produces the better prospects right now too, they just don't get signed by the UFC.

Hmm for HW that would be

Jon Jones Vs Alexander Volkov
Curtis Blaydes Vs Sergei Pavlovich
Stipe Miocic Vs Vadim Nemkov
Ryan Bader Vs Anatoly Malykhin
Derrick Lewis Vs Rizvan Kuniev
Steve Mowry Vs Evgeny Goncharov
Tony Johnson Vs Denis Goltsov
Tim Johnson Vs Alikhan Vakhaev
Tyrell Fortune Vs Anton Vyagizin
Daniel James Vs Oleg Popov
Don'Tale Mayes Vs Valentin Moldavsky
Said Sowma Vs Ali Isaev
Thomas Petersen Vs Sergey Bilostenniy
Maurice Greene Vs Adam Bogatryev
Chris BarnettVs Shamil Gaziev (or Kirill Kornilov if you stick Gaziev with Bahrain)

Yeah, Russia steamrolls at heavyweight

 

[Uber_Noober]

I thought this was settled already

 

[HuskySamoan]

Hmm for HW that would be

Jon Jones Vs Alexander Volkov
Curtis Blaydes Vs Sergei Pavlovich
Stipe Miocic Vs Vadim Nemkov
Ryan Bader Vs Anatoly Malykhin
Derrick Lewis Vs Rizvan Kuniev
Steve Mowry Vs Evgeny Goncharov
Tony Johnson Vs Denis Goltsov
Tim Johnson Vs Alikhan Vakhaev
Tyrell Fortune Vs Anton Vyagizin
Daniel James Vs Oleg Popov
Don'Tale Mayes Vs Valentin Moldavsky
Said Sowma Vs Ali Isaev
Thomas Petersen Vs Sergey Bilostenniy
Maurice Greene Vs Adam Bogatryev
Chris BarnettVs Shamil Gaziev (or Kirill Kornilov if you stick Gaziev with Bahrain)

Yeah, Russia steamrolls at heavyweight

I'd only start doing this at 170lbs and below. I can make the 15, I just...think ordering is tough. I'd favor Russia at 170, 155 and 145 over the US I think too.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I'd only start doing this at 170lbs and below. I can make the 15, I just...think ordering is tough. I'd favor Russia at 170, 155 and 145 over the US I think too.

I can just work from my rankings so it's fairly easy

170

Belal Muhammad Vs Shamil Musaev
Colby Covington Vs Albert Tumenov
Sean Brady Vs Ramazan Kuramagomedov
Stephen Thompson Vs Magomed Magomedkerimov
Geoff Neal Vs Magomed Umalatov
Logan Storley Vs Murad Ramazanov
Joaquin Buckley Vs Boris Medvedev
Kevin Holland Vs Rinat Fakhretdinov
Neil Magny Vs Andrei Koreshkov
Lorenz Larkin Vs Abubakar Vagaev
Bryan Battle Vs Ustarmagomed Gadzhidaudov
Daniel Rodriguez Vs Saygid Izagakhmaev
Khaos Williams Vs Chersi Dudaev
Phil Rowe Vs Muslim Salikhov
Niko Price Vs Uzair Abdurakov


I'd buy that PPV.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Sticking with russia, reason in other thread

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I'd only start doing this at 170lbs and below. I can make the 15, I just...think ordering is tough. I'd favor Russia at 170, 155 and 145 over the US I think too.

155

Justin Gaethje Vs Islam Makhachev
Dustin Poirier Vs Eduard Vartanyan
Beneil Dariush Vs Abdul Aziz Abdulvakhabov
Christian Lee Vs Alexander Shabliy
Michael Chandler Vs Usman Nurmagomedov
AJ McKee Vs Alexander Sarnavskiy
Jalin Turner Vs Ali Bagov (somewhere where you can juice)
Grant Dawson Vs Daud Shaikhaev
Drakkar Klose Vs Yusus Raisov
Brent Primus Vs Khalid Satuev
Bobby Green Vs Alibeg Rasulov
Matt Frevola Vs Mehdi Dakaev
Drew Dober Vs Ali Abdulkhalikov
Sidney Outlaw Vs Gadzhi Rabadanov
Clay Collard Vs Amirkhan Adaev

 

[HuskySamoan]

I can just work from my rankings so it's fairly easy

170

Belal Muhammad Vs Shamil Musaev
Colby Covington Vs Albert Tumenov
Sean Brady Vs Ramazan Kuramagomedov
Stephen Thompson Vs Magomed Magomedkerimov
Geoff Neal Vs Magomed Umalatov
Logan Storley Vs Murad Ramazanov
Joaquin Buckley Vs Boris Medvedev
Kevin Holland Vs Rinat Fakhretdinov
Neil Magny Vs Andrei Koreshkov
Lorenz Larkin Vs Abubakar Vagaev
Bryan Battle Vs Ustarmagomed Gadzhidaudov
Daniel Rodriguez Vs Saygid Izagakhmaev
Khaos Williams Vs Chersi Dudaev
Phil Rowe Vs Muslim Salikhov
Niko Price Vs Uzair Abdurakov


I'd buy that PPV.

This one's close. I think Brady, Thompson, Neal, Drod and Battle all lose pretty comfortably. Musaev may or may not beat Belal but the way he shut down Storley and Murad, he's a dangerous fight. Colby should beat Tumenov (who I'd have lower). A lot of the others are close or I'm not familiar enough to say confidently either way.

 

[HuskySamoan]

155

Justin Gaethje Vs Islam Makhachev
Dustin Poirier Vs Eduard Vartanyan
Beneil Dariush Vs Abdul Aziz Abdulvakhabov
Christian Lee Vs Alexander Shabliy
Michael Chandler Vs Usman Nurmagomedov
AJ McKee Vs Alexander Sarnavskiy
Jalin Turner Vs Ali Bagov (somewhere where you can juice)
Grant Dawson Vs Daud Shaikhaev
Drakkar Klose Vs Yusus Raisov
Brent Primus Vs Khalid Satuev
Bobby Green Vs Alibeg Rasulov
Matt Frevola Vs Mehdi Dakaev
Drew Dober Vs Ali Abdulkhalikov
Sidney Outlaw Vs Gadzhi Rabadanov
Clay Collard Vs Amirkhan Adaev

How do you base these lists? Like Arman moved to Russia when he was 3 and did all his training and growing up there and still lives there doesn't he? If Arman doesn't count because "he wasn't born there" then surely guys like Baki or Khamzat should count as Russian. And at what point don't you weigh potential and talent into the equation and put guys like Amru or Gitinov on here?

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Right now its Russia for sure. Much higher ratio of quality fighters in that talent pool. It'd be even more lopsided if all those ACA etc guys were in the UFC instead.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Theoretically, the US; reality, Russia.
Truly neck and neck, though.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I'd only start doing this at 170lbs and below. I can make the 15, I just...think ordering is tough. I'd favor Russia at 170, 155 and 145 over the US I think too.

145

Max Holloway Vs Movsar Evloev
Brian Ortega Vs Islam Omarov
Aljamain Sterling Vs Timur Khizriev
Josh Emmett Vs Movlid Khaybulaev
Calvin Kattar Vs Bibert Tumenov
Bryce Mitchell Vs Alikhan Suleymanov
Dan Ige Vs Evgeniy Ignatiev
Sean Woodson Vs Alexey Polpudnikov
Aaron Pico Vs Kurban Taygibov
Nate Landwehr Vs Shamil Gasanov
Pat Sabatini Vs Saifulla Dzhabrailov
Alex Caceres Vs Khasan Magomedsharipov
Jonathan Pearce Vs Viktor Kolesnik
Andre Fili Vs Mukhamed Eminov
Billy Quarantillo Vs Gleb Khabibulin

 

[Hellowhosthat]

How do you base these lists? Like Arman moved to Russia when he was 3 and did all his training and growing up there and still lives there doesn't he? If Arman doesn't count because "he wasn't born there" then surely guys like Baki or Khamzat should count as Russian. And at what point don't you weigh potential and talent into the equation and put guys like Amru or Gitinov on here?

I'm just going on who they rep. Arman reps Armenia and Baki reps France.

Khamzat reps Russia now I think but he's a middleweight now.

Amru is the 17th ranked Russian on my list at lighweight, with Matmuratov between him and the rankings, but his potential is obviously absolutely massive, just hasn't had the opportunity to prove it yet. I actually think he's more talented than Usman Nurmagomedov.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I'd only start doing this at 170lbs and below. I can make the 15, I just...think ordering is tough. I'd favor Russia at 170, 155 and 145 over the US I think too.

135

Sean O'Malley Vs Umar Nurmagomedov
Cory Sandhagen Vs Petr Yan
Patchy Mix Vs Rustam Kerimov
Henry Cejudo Vs Magomed Magomedov
Raufeon Stots Vs Said Nurmagomedov
Kyler Phillips Vs Mehdi Baydulaev
Mario Bautista Vs Rakhim Midaev
Jonathan Martinez Vs Khuseyn Shaykhaev
Rob Font Vs Oleg Borisov
Sergio Pettis Vs Makharbek Karginov
Montel Jackson Vs Magomed Bibulatov
Danny Sabatello Vs Ahkmed Musakaev
Dominick Cruz Vs Timur Valiev
Ricky Simon Vs Renat Khavalov
Victor Henry Vs Abdul Rakhman Dudaev

That card would be quite the spectacle.

 

[sonhow]

Sigh....
usa
next question

 

[World eater]

Well, the USA is much wealthier, has better infrastructure, more camps/ training facilities and more than twice the population.
Therefore, Russia.