International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V7

[deadon]

I think this may be a bit misleading. All other sources I've seen related to Ukraine/China are saying Zelensky wants to meet with Xi to ask for China to put pressure on Russia to end the war (which would make more sense) but apparently the talks never even happened.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...inas-xi-help-end-ukraine-war-scmp-2022-08-03/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/ukraine-china-russia-volodymyr-zelensky-xi-jinping-vladimir-putin-invasion-war-1730735?amp=1


In regards to rebuilding Ukraine, I saw this saying Zelesky urged China to participate with the rest of the international communinty in the reconstruction effort. But that sure is different than saying he wants to sign some exclusive deal with China as that Breitbart headline made it seem. Either way, doesn't seem likely that any of that will happen.

https://www.scmp.com/video/world/31...r-ties-china-and-help-rebuilding-his-war-torn

This was a day ago.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told the South China Morning Post on Thursday that he would like to discuss his country’s war against Russia with the leader of Russia’s closest ally, Xi Jinping, “directly,” and invited China to help rebuild Ukraine once the war is over.
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022...g-for-talks-invites-china-to-rebuild-ukraine/

Now if you want to dismiss this thats fine. I do have a question tho. We are at odds with China right now. We are the largest supporter of Ukraine. So why would anyone ask China for shit?
This makes zero sense.

 

[Cole train]

Why would Ukraine use civilians as human shields? The Russians don't mind bombing civilians, so what exactly would civilians shield against?

They tried to avoid them in early part of war, not anymore though nor does ukr try to avoid civvies either it seems.

Either way its an extra "layer of protection"

 

[MeatheadMike]

This was a day ago.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told the South China Morning Post on Thursday that he would like to discuss his country’s war against Russia with the leader of Russia’s closest ally, Xi Jinping, “directly,” and invited China to help rebuild Ukraine once the war is over.
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022...g-for-talks-invites-china-to-rebuild-ukraine/

Now if you want to dismiss this thats fine. I do have a question tho. We are at odds with China right now. We are the largest supporter of Ukraine. So why would anyone ask China for shit?
This makes zero sense.

Yea that's the Breitbart article I'm saying is misleading. Based on what Zelensky said, this looks like more of a feeble plea for China to join the fold against Russia... not close some exclusive financing deal with China as they made it seem. China isn't going to risk losing that cheap Russian oil anyway, which is why they haven't even spoke to him.

Yea I agree, it makes no sense which is why it probably isn't true. Why would Zelensky want China to exclusivley rebuild Ukraine now if they have tons of western support.

 

[ferrisjso]

Why would Ukraine use civilians as human shields? The Russians don't mind bombing civilians, so what exactly would civilians shield against?

Whether you agree or disagree with the report the motive for any belligerent using humans as shields should be obvious. Even if we throw out the moral component you're blurring the line between military and civilian targets. The Russians main game is artillery bombardments.

 

[deadon]

Yea that's the Breitbart article I'm saying is misleading. Based on what Zelensky said, this looks like more of a feeble plea for China to join the fold against Russia... not close some exclusive financing deal with China as they made it seem. China isn't going to risk losing that cheap Russian oil anyway, which is why they haven't even spoke to him.

Yea I agree, it makes no sense which is why it probably isn't true. Why would Zelensky want China to exclusivley rebuild Ukraine now if they have tons of western support.

To be fair I went to the source but you have to pay to read it all. So I'll have to investigate further.

You mind giving your thoughts on the rest of my post?

 

[ferrisjso]

This was a day ago.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told the South China Morning Post on Thursday that he would like to discuss his country’s war against Russia with the leader of Russia’s closest ally, Xi Jinping, “directly,” and invited China to help rebuild Ukraine once the war is over.
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022...g-for-talks-invites-china-to-rebuild-ukraine/

Now if you want to dismiss this thats fine. I do have a question tho. We are at odds with China right now. We are the largest supporter of Ukraine. So why would anyone ask China for shit?
This makes zero sense.

It actually does. Many have cited China as the most logical mediator of this war because they have a friendly relationship with Russia and Ukraine and are more powerful than Russia. Now most wars end via treatys negotiated by the belligerents but some cases third parties step in to assist with the process. It also deflects blame for negotiating a settlement the people aren't happy with and allows both sides to blame someone else. I've maintained the Ukranian regime is secretley happy they are losing the Donbass and areas that went 80-90 percent for their opposition they'll never lose an election again but the people won't be.

The classic case is the US presiding over negotiations with Russia and Japan after the Russo-Japanese War. For this Thedore Roosevelt won a Nobel Peace Prize. At this point the US was much like China is today a rising superpower who was only agressive in it's own neighborhood and thus had the trust of those outside it. If you're thinking wait the Japanese main enemy was the US at this point Japan were closely aligned with the UK. Japan could be called a super colony or military colony because UK was bringing them up in their image so they'd be strong enough to fight the UK's enemys(potentially everyone since the UK was in the US's current position and fucking with almost everyone).The US was on the list of UK's potential enemies but at this point they were at the bottom. After WW1 UK/Japan bond was severed and things changed. In this role US would later negotiate between the Weimar Republic and France/UK on making Germany's debt more managable. Even after joining WW1 they were still seen as a neutral country both sides would trust.

Ukraine actually had a quite friendly relationship with China before this invasion. While they are opposed to Ukraines main sugar daddy Ukraines utility to the US is opposing Russia not China. Outside of the US and Asia Chinas foreign policy is quite friendly. This will make the world more willing to accept China replacing the US as hegemon because the US used that status to enforce their agenda on much of the globe. The goal is most of the world seeing China as an improvement. When the US originally took this role they were similarily an isolationist country who the world saw as an improvement over the previous oppressive order.

Also much of the west probably including the US military believes China will be the number 1 country eventually so no one's trying to piss off China except the US and Asian countries who stand to lose something with Chinese hegemony. For US this would be near unlimited power, for Japan it's paranoia about China getting revenge for what happened in the 40s and then there's Taiwan and the countries that have border disputes with China either on land or the south china sea. Everyone else really has no reason to be hostile to China except the whip of the US even far right countries who are opposite Chinas values. Kinda like all the countries outside Eastern Europe and the US are quite friendly with Russia including enemies of China from Asia. Russia and China are opposed to US inerests but they are not Allies or a "package deal".

 

[SandisLL]

Why would Ukraine use civilians as human shields? The Russians don't mind bombing civilians, so what exactly would civilians shield against?

For pro Russian propaganda is social media...

Becuse if Russia didn't had hestitated even to shell empty chruch, mosque and museum....
While ofc for Ukr more lucrative might be to tell that these had civilians inside...nope...
+ if Russia didn't had hestitated to shell abadoned civilian buildings 100+ miles from frontline....

Then we might imagine how "civilian shield " nonsense will work vs russia ....only in dreams from cubicles....

 

[SandisLL]

For Ukr is too late to sell Ukraine to China.

If Ukr until 2020 th had managed to " sell " stuff like Donbas and Luhansk oblastj to China....then Russia didn't had afforded to invade.

" to sell " most likely had been solution to sell some bunch of power plants and factories + coal mines to Chinesse....
+ allow them to open their banks in these areas...
+ sell them enough impactful % of agricultural land properties...
+ allow them to turn these areas in Chinatown if they will decide to do this....

__
Next step might had been to do the same with Odessa and oblastj...

While Lviv oblastj they might had " sold " to West...

Etc...

Now it is too late IMHO...

 

[deadon]

This seems to fit this topic really well.
How many have been called Russias or Russian bots for posting this info?

 

[Videer]

Amnesty saying ukr tactics endanger civvies, basically some civvy casualties that rus was blamed for in last months been due to ukr firing from building/areas where civvies where hiding

Not sure how legit amnesty is when it comes to this stuff though

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...krainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/

It makes for a catchy headline but thats about it.
Russia is attacking Ukrainian cities so Ukraine should defend those cities how exactly, by not having any troops in cities?
It is not like Ukraine has not tried to get people to evacuate, they cant forcibly evacuate people.

Example from April:

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/07/ukraine-mass-evacuation-underway-from-donbass-region-16421995/

Begging civilians to leave the region ‘while it is still possible’, local officials in Donbas’ Lugansk and Donetsk said the region was already facing constant indiscriminate shelling.

To be fair I went to the source but you have to pay to read it all. So I'll have to investigate further.

You mind giving your thoughts on the rest of my post?

"Kind of like, 30 percent maybe" yep. I believe you bruh



Using Donatella Rovera as their source who was also part of the Amnesty report lol.
Why the fuck would Ukraine share any location info with her? She'd probably share weapon locations with a "deconflictation board" including Russia so they could bomb those just like they did with hospital locations shared in Syria.

 

[Cole train]

It makes for a catchy headline but thats about it.
Russia is attacking Ukrainian cities so Ukraine should defend those cities how exactly, by not having any troops in cities?
It is not like Ukraine has not tried to get people to evacuate, they cant forcibly evacuate people.

Example from April:

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/07/ukraine-mass-evacuation-underway-from-donbass-region-16421995/




"Kind of like, 30 percent maybe" yep. I believe you bruh



Using Donatella Rovera as their source who was also part of the Amnesty report lol.
Why the fuck would Ukraine share any location info with her? She'd probably share weapon locations with a "deconflictation board" including Russia so they could bomb those just like they did with hospital locations shared in Syria.

Your point is completely correct really since in sometimes theres really no choice but to set up among civvies.

That being said russian speaking of telegram was full of discussion about ukr using civvies as shield around may/june (and especially in mariupol)

I didnt mention it back then simply because info on tele can be whatever but if amnesty is starting to report it, it might have some truth.

Either way both sides are full of shit when it comes to this "laws of war" stuff

 

[Terry Noonan]

Our Himras seem to have made it to the front lines…. And all those javelins…

 

[meauneau]

This seems to fit this topic really well.
How many have been called Russias or Russian bots for posting this info?

Came to post this lol

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

Your point is completely correct really since in sometimes theres really no choice but to set up among civvies.

That being said russian speaking of telegram was full of discussion about ukr using civvies as shield around may/june (and especially in mariupol)

I didnt mention it back then simply because info on tele can be whatever but if amnesty is starting to report it, it might have some truth.

Either way both sides are full of shit when it comes to this "laws of war" stuff

There's also a difference between that and using schools/hospitals. The schools at least has been known for ages before this report. Plenty of pictures taken in schools being circulated from ukranian soliders

 

[Cole train]

There's also a difference between that and using schools/hospitals. The schools at least has been known for ages before this report. Plenty of pictures taken in schools being circulated from ukranian soliders

Honestly im only mentioning this due to hypocrisy or whats the word in english.

If one calls out russia for breaking humanitarian laws (which they do) you have to kinda call out ukr as well thats all imo

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

Honestly im only mentioning this due to hypocrisy or whats the word in english.

If one calls out russia for breaking humanitarian laws (which they do) you have to kinda call out ukr as well thats all imo

Oh for sure I agree with that. I'm not surprised when it's not called out though, it's clearly a very emotional topic for many and they don't want to hear any bad news regardless of the source.

 

[deadon]

Oh for sure I agree with that. I'm not surprised when it's not called out though, it's clearly a very emotional topic for many and they don't want to hear any bad news regardless of the source.

This is all I've asked for in this topic from the start. You've seen posts removed that share info from Russian troops.

Just think we should be able to talk about both sides is all without someone with broken English telling us we're paid to post.

 

[Rholk]

This seems to fit this topic really well.
How many have been called Russias or Russian bots for posting this info?

Have you actually watched it?
Mind telling me where the "30%" quote is at?

 

[Badr Hari]

Oh '30%' is going to be the new trend word for the "neutrals"

70% are the captured by the russians and destroyed HIMARS

 

[Badr Hari]

IDK why but I never get tired watching russian talk shows. If Putin's regime ever ends, these moments are the ones I'll miss the most.