Russia/Ukraine Megathread V6

[KnightTemplar]

Poor bastards. Swedish vodka is better too

Single Malt Whiskey>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Vodka

 

[Ruprecht]

You said:


When the poster spoke about Finland specific.

Yes. Exactly.

And FYI Sweden does not have a problem with him either.

That's more surprising. I guess it wouldn't achieve much with the Schengen agreement, but that's the sort of thing that's had Australian citizenship stripped from dual citizens and, as I pointed out before, had citizens lose their passports when their intentions were made clear. Of course we have specific foreign fighter legislation, which was applied to Isis but not the YPG/SDF (charges dropped, despite the PKK being on our terror groups list).
There are a number of Australians that have gone to the Ukraine to fight, but without the white nationalist ideology or intention to specifically join Azov, and I'd count on them being treated similarly to those that fought with the Kurds in Syria.

 

[SandisLL]

Cos here some guys had insisted that US is guilty about fall of USSR and world usually knows english language versions or russian propaganda versions: like Gorbachev destroyed USSR or / and sponsored by west movements : reason why USSR collapsed wasn't this.
San Manino loves USSR and is thinking that former USSR territories should live under Moscov.
While he doesn't have clue why USSR collapsed.
Only mainstream media in english versions.
Reasone were internal and huge.

 

[SandisLL]

Chapter No1.
Due to supply/ demand difference in USSR had developed: corruption, underground economy and bribes in all levels. Starting with local plumber; he worked better if get something " under the table ".
Shotage of car spare parts in retail stores, corruption in all levels to get service in time, black economy.Bribes.

From small ( like pack with cigarettes ) till someone with skills/ connections is buying for example for 3,00 and selling you for 5,00.
Cofee beans too was stuff popular in underground economy.
Good quality meat too: you pay some bribe to salesclerk and he when get stuff to sell ....is selling you and casuals doesn't even see this in retail store.
In USSR not rare cases were when simple salespersons afforded to have jewellery teacher can't afford to buy from legal salary.


Nail in coffin put Mr Andropov.
He banned vodka sales outside of strictly limited timeframe and days....
With this for a lot of ppl as additional earning was to buy vodka in allowed time ( when ppl usually are working or travel from work to home etc ) and sell it for higher prices.
Huge underground capitalism had been born.
Corruption too, cos local soviet police had choice: to take bribes and earn money or to report.

If bearing in mind undergorund economy lucrativity and corruption.... in all levels....
Capitalism and kleptocracy had turned into USSR reality, corruption and bribes too...

Gorbachev fought with....windmills....
He get country with rapidly developing underground economy, hidden capitalism and corruption as __ core.

Famous curse words in USSR then were: " I wish you recieve only SALARY".

Nepotism, corruption, bribes as norm in all levels, underground capitalism and....ppl willing to live better than USSR standards is society Gorbachev had get to manage.
With developing kleptocracy as norm......irl....

Plus huge, rising expenses for military, political brainwashing and old communists in party upper level.

 

[SandisLL]

Next chapter.
Mr Gorbachev ruling soviet union.

Initially they had enough gold etc reserves to maintain...looks that 1985 th budget.

Later communists get, that it is not possible to suppress capitalism in USSR as de facto reality.
Under " freedom " cover they launched " perestroika " in hope that cooperatives ( small businesses ) will took USSR from economic hole.

U.S didn't had ordered USSR invade Afganistan and waste xx billions to supply Cabul and maintain huge USSR forces ( more expensive was to keep 1 soldier in Cabul than 3 soldiers in Moscow due to logistics alone ) here.
U.S didn't had ordered USSR to continue fill East Germany with weapons till 1990 th.


They didn't had ordered USSR to use roubles printing machines and create hyper inflation, supplies shortages and so on beauties....

Flower revolutions were mainly cos: local communists ( yeah!!! ) and young carreer ppl get what stuff will happen with USSR.
2 nd reason: Russian federation most likely assumed: we have gold mines, nickel mines, silver, platinum, palladium, coal, wood, crude oil and natural gas.
And....WOW, we overprinted USSR rouble.
Kick out " parasites " and we will be rich.

National stuff too is good: to hide economic Great Depression in USSR....KGB launched russian nationalism indirect campaigns....smart campaigns...

Didn't helped then.

When you attempt to keep socialism while are putting ppl on soap, sugar, vodka and cigarettes stamps as right to buy...for money! and create hyper inflation....
Thank you.

Dudes like San Marino crealry have attitude: let put plebs under Moscow and everything will be cool.
Cos he is '' smart " dude here without any clue how much xxxx billions US will lost if they will lost influence in Europe.
All this " help " to NATO member countries is business to protect investors and weapons sellers, corps and US banks too and USD too...
Not cos " charity " reasons.

While Russia too is the same, they are really stupid and ALWAYS will be.

 

[lsa]

Yes. Exactly.



That's more surprising. I guess it wouldn't achieve much with the Schengen agreement, but that's the sort of thing that's had Australian citizenship stripped from dual citizens and, as I pointed out before, had citizens lose their passports when their intentions were made clear. Of course we have specific foreign fighter legislation, which was applied to Isis but not the YPG/SDF (charges dropped, despite the PKK being on our terror groups list).
There are a number of Australians that have gone to the Ukraine to fight, but without the white nationalist ideology or intention to specifically join Azov, and I'd count on them being treated similarly to those that fought with the Kurds in Syria.

Its not illegal to fight for another country.
The Swedish security police asked him a few questions back when and that was it.
Dude is not seen as a threat to national security or anything.
He made the news a few articles and that was it.
He has kept a low profile in media at least and you wont find anything newer than 2015.

Lots of people fought abroad , Balkan war, both sides, Kurdistan, and Ukraine.
Most of them come home and nothing really happens more than questioned by the police.
Most of them have returned to everyday life.
But then non of them fought for a terror organization, which would be a different story.

 

[SandisLL]

O, jihad....
I had saw stuff about 2 white guys.
One went to train under ISIS, now he is in prison.
There isn't feared by westerners in cubicles " symbols " to distress mainstream ants - mass media content customers.
As he told; we do bahh bahh and AFTER this will talk.
Another; ha had a lot of C-4 like stuff and dreamed about....some paradise....
Too in prison......

 

[SandisLL]

If railroad here had been mentioned and Hitler.

A lot of work to defeat Hitler had been done by partisans in occupied territories.
Hitler had did biggest mistake when.... he treated POWs in Central and Eastern Europe not well.
If he had let them just to give up weapons and go home...dumb idiot turned them into slaves.
Later also to use ppl in occupied areas as very cheap 3 rd sort and 4 th sort ppl...

The same Belarus cos this reason had a lot of partisans and Baltic countries too. Belarus had more preferable landscape for this.

Diversions and sabotage on railroads till direct attack forced Hitler to use high number of ants to defend railroad network. Cos this they were not able to use these in frontline....

Belarus then for sure had stuff like " handbook about IEDs " and " sabouteurs - diversants handbook...
IRL.

 

[skysolo]

Every "end the damn wars' house democrat voted for extending a damn war that we shouldn't be involved with in the first place.

 

[brothir]

Every "end the damn wars' house democrat voted for extending a damn war that we shouldn't be involved with in the first place.

You don't understand the difference between wanting a war that cannot be won for the Afghan government to end, a war that was started for incorrect reasons to end, and wanting to defend the sovereignty of a nation against a geopolitical enemy? There's no hypocrisy in being against the Iraq or Afghanistan war but in favor of supporting Ukraine against Russia's invasion.

 

[skysolo]

You don't understand the difference between wanting a war that cannot be won for the Afghan government to end, a war that was started for incorrect reasons to end, and wanting to defend the sovereignty of a nation against a geopolitical enemy? There's no hypocrisy in being against the Iraq or Afghanistan war but in favor of supporting Ukraine against Russia's invasion.

You don't understand why this war started and why it is continuing. There is a ton of hypocrisy in terms of Russia/Ukraine war.

They said "end the damn wars". They didn't say "well unless it's Putin".

If America wanted to end this war, they would be helping negotiate instead of giving billions upon billions of our money to eastern Europe.

You're proof that propoganda still works.

 

[brothir]

You don't understand why this war started and why it is continuing. There is a ton of hypocrisy in terms of Russia/Ukraine war.

They said "end the damn wars". They didn't say "well unless it's Putin".

If America wanted to end this war, they would be helping negotiate instead of giving billions upon billions of our money to eastern Europe.

You're proof that propoganda still works.

"End the damn wars" refers to two very obviously specific wars. And unlike the Iraq and Afghanistan war, there isn't a US invasion of Russia. The logic behind the wars aren't the same, and the measures used in the involvement of the wars aren't the same. That negates the hypocrisy you're angling for here.

Instead, it's you that's the victim of propaganda. Negotiations are meaningless as long as Russia maintains its demands, and the effective way of supporting Ukraine is to give them the means to fight effectively. Your line here serves Putin's agenda.

 

[mkess101]

You don't understand why this war started and why it is continuing. There is a ton of hypocrisy in terms of Russia/Ukraine war.

They said "end the damn wars". They didn't say "well unless it's Putin".

If America wanted to end this war, they would be helping negotiate instead of giving billions upon billions of our money to eastern Europe.

You're proof that propoganda still works.

Why it started? I'm pretty sure a sovereign nation was invaded and decided to try to fight back. That's "why it started". You can state why you believe the US is getting involved in a proxy sense by supporting the Ukrainians (different question), but acting like the war "started" for any other reason than that Russia made a play to change borders for at least their land bridge to Crimea is to truly ignore every obvious piece of evidence there is.

 

[skysolo]

"End the damn wars" refers to two very obviously specific wars. And unlike the Iraq and Afghanistan war, there isn't a US invasion of Russia. The logic behind the wars aren't the same, and the measures used in the involvement of the wars aren't the same. That negates the hypocrisy you're angling for here.

Instead, it's you that's the victim of propaganda. Negotiations are meaningless as long as Russia maintains its demands, and the effective way of supporting Ukraine is to give them the means to fight effectively. Your line here serves Putin's agenda.

Bernie was referring to all of the wars including the ones in Libya and Yemen.

You support the continued escalation with a nuclear power and what is clearly a proxy war against Russia. You are clearly propagandized.

 

[skysolo]

Why it started? I'm pretty sure a sovereign nation was invaded and decided to try to fight back. That's "why it started". You can state why you believe the US is getting involved in a proxy sense by supporting the Ukrainians (different question), but acting like the war "started" for any other reason than that Russia made a play to change borders for at least their land bridge to Crimea is to truly ignore every obvious piece of evidence there is.

Give Ukraine endless billions while Americans live on the streets. This is why we fight.

 

[skysolo]

 

[mkess101]

Give Ukraine endless billions while Americans live on the streets. This is why we fight.

Again, you're ignoring my point. You stated "why the war started". There is a clear and definitive reason this war started. You can understand this while still disagreeing with US involvement (or the way the US is involved).

 

[skysolo]

Again, you're ignoring my point. You stated "why the war started". There is a clear and definitive reason this war started. You can understand this while still disagreeing with US involvement (or the way the US is involved).

Dude, you don't give a shit about the sovereignty of another nation being invaded by yada yada blah blah blah. If you did, you would have more than ZERO posts about Yemen. The Yemen war is 1000 times worse and you have never discussed it. So I simply do not believe your moral indigitation about Ukraine.

"End the damn wars" refers to two very obviously specific wars. And unlike the Iraq and Afghanistan war, there isn't a US invasion of Russia. The logic behind the wars aren't the same, and the measures used in the involvement of the wars aren't the same. That negates the hypocrisy you're angling for here.

Instead, it's you that's the victim of propaganda. Negotiations are meaningless as long as Russia maintains its demands, and the effective way of supporting Ukraine is to give them the means to fight effectively. Your line here serves Putin's agenda.

In fact, I don't believe either one of you in terms of "caring" about Ukraine. Your words don't match your actions.

 

[mkess101]

Dude, you don't give a shit about the sovereignty of another nation being invaded by yada yada blah blah blah. If you did, you would have more than ZERO posts about Yemen. The Yemen war is 1000 times worse and you have never discussed it. So I simply do not believe your moral indigitation about Ukraine.

My (selfish) interest as a westerner is more about the fact that a nuclear power decides to continue to expand it's sphere of influence and change the entire geopolitical landscape of Europe. As if this is the first time Putin has done this? Chechnya, Georgia, Belarus...

I'm not sure where you got "moral indignation" from? I simply stated WHY this war started, nothing else. YOU are the one going off about all the other stuff. Your replies aren't even addressing what I'm saying. You claimed the other poster "didn't understand" why this war started. But everyone with a brain understands why it started. Again, that's a different question than "what role should the west play, if any."

 

[brothir]

Bernie was referring to all of the wars including the ones in Libya and Yemen.

You support the continued escalation with a nuclear power and what is clearly a proxy war against Russia. You are clearly propagandized.

Both of which are still very different from Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And I'm not brainwashed because I think Ukraine should be free from Russia's interventions, and support giving aid and weapons to Ukraine as a result.