Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

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Interesting podcast with Retired Lt General Mark Hertling. He thinks Russian troops are fucked.

There are four sources of elements of national power
1. Public Information
2. Public diplomacy
3. Economic Issues
4. Military

He points out the US has used all 4 elements to counter Putin's attack in Ukraine. This is likely going to be a long term action and Ukrainians are going to suffer. But this is not a war that can be won by Putin. Putin's military is terrible. There is corruption at the higher levels and there isn't the will to fight at the low levels and there are all kinds of logistical problems.

After seeing the destruction and horror, some Americans are saying we should take actions to make it end, but Hertling says it won’t until Putin accepts defeat in a war he can’t win.



Podcast has a lot more info in nice easy conversation

https://www.thebulwark.com/podcast-episode/general-mark-hertling-why-the-russians-will-lose/
 
Maybe Zelensky brought up no fly zone request to start negations and realistically hoped to get drones. People will all be taking about the airplanes and no fly zones and it wouldn't seem like getting air defense systems and drones would be escalating the conflict between two nations to transform it to be NATO and/or US vs Russia.
 
San Marino said:
Hiroshima - US? Should that not be Hiroshima - Japan?
The immediate explosion killed an estimated 80,000 Japanese. Tens of thousands more would later die of radiation exposure.
There were 12 American prisoners of war killed in Hiroshima.
I'm keeping things at the conventional level.
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And honestly the conventional bombing of Tokyo was even worse, but nobody ever talks about that one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo
 
jeffk said:
Maybe Zelensky brought up no fly zone request to start negations and realistically hoped to get drones. People will all be taking about the airplanes and no fly zones and it wouldn't seem like getting air defense systems and drones would be escalating the conflict between two nations to transform it to be NATO and/or US vs Russia.
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Drones with a no fly zone is a escalation.
 
GoldenWolf87 said:
Drones with a no fly zone is a escalation.
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I meant Ukraine gets a bunch of drones instead of a no fly zone. And maybe they get them from Turkey. The whole talk about planes from NATO nations was a distraction.
 
blottstein said:
it really does blow my mind that people don't realize this could end literally every day by America giving concessions to Putin

Do people actually think it's Ukraine negotiating with russia and not America?

obviously if America were interested in that we wouldn't have ramped the situation up, but it should be known every day this goes on is another day America could have ended this situation simply with a few pen strokes
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It's not the USA handing the Russians their own asses.

Usually I'd agree with you that the major power has a controlling hand in this kinda thing but NATO/Russia and nuclear weapons means America has to be very careful to stay out of it. Putin has shown he won't put up with them sticking their oar in further.
 
Halge said:
I know we all talk about it in terms of a new world war, but what would a war with Russia really mean? On its face, all-out war with Russia means war between NATO+possibly some other EU nations on one side, and Russia+Belarus on the other side. Which isn't really much of a contest - Russia is large, but also hilariously sparsely populated virtually everywhere east of the Ural Mountains. We'd outnumber it 10 to 1, and economically the discrepancy is even worse. It sounds more like a major European war, than a world war.

If China gets involved, either directly on Russia's side or by starting a separate war over Taiwan, that's another matter entirely. But would that happen?
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If war breaks out between NATO and Russia nukes start flying and a lot of the world is fucked.

China is at least 6yrs away from invading Taiwan, if they did it now they'd need to use civilian boats.

@Da Speeit as an aside, let's not derail the thread but to answer your question:
Socialism is defined as a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, and Russia now were/are totalitarian regimes where production, distribution and exchange are owned and regulated by the ruler and their oligarchs.
 
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Hypetrainhipsta said:
And honestly the conventional bombing of Tokyo was even worse, but nobody ever talks about that one.
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Indeed.
Tokyo in Japan and Dresden in Germany. The US bombed the 'shit' out of both cities and killed a lot of civilians.
Neither was a major military target. More of a morale campaign. 'War Crimes' if you ask me. A few in the US military were highly against the Dresden bombing. We are talking the killing of women and children!
Tokyo dead: 80,000+
Dresden dead: 35,000+

* For fuck sakes, the US and British bombed Dresden in 4 raids. They dropped more than 4,000 tons of bombs and incendiary devices on the city. At that stage of the war, neither side cared much about civilian casualties. Very different from the start of the war. The Germans have rebuilt the city and it looks beautiful.
 
GoldenWolf87 said:
Triggered? he has a point.
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wait, what do you mean? I just want to know what he is talking about, can’t stand listening to him, because he is an annoying entitled multimillionaire. That does not mean he might have a point. I just don’t like him. Now, do you have cliffs sherbro?
 
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