Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

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mkess101 said:
When you say he could have weeks ago, how do you mean "take" it? Like, send all his troops in to go door to door in a city the size of Chicago and clear every room? Every building? Or do you mean just fire rockets in and lay waste to it with no regard for what's left after? Or some alternative to those two things that I'm not thinking of when I think of "taking" a city?
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He could have surrounded it and gone in whatever fashion he was willing to weeks ago. It would have been a mess, but he would have taken it.

So why hasnt he?
 
Da Speeit said:
I know its not a popular view and a hard one to let shine through especially when its contrary to most popular media, but i think a lot of people overlook just how badly we were lied to on every level about Syria, and at times I see and read things so similar to that jarring disassociation i felt in 16/17 and i get pretty fucking triggered and go over the top, so it seems like im callous to one side or sympathetic to another.

i basically think there’s an elite class in politics and intel with competing interests who rely on these events to let everyday people and soldiers die so that they can consolidate gains and seize a little more power.

that goes for Biden, NATO, Putin, Xi, the DIA, Ukraine’s inner state, the Kremlin, everyone and i think they demonstrably will let Ukrainian and Russian soldiers die with no question so that they can preach “a message of peace” from their graves. I put so much responsibility on NATO bc I expect them to be the adults in the room when dealing with thugs like Putin, but so often I see them make petty, short-sighted decisions that engulf all parties in a lose/lose situation, which I think benefits Putin more than anyone.

just my POV. I get that it may he wrong but i don’t like having an opinion if i’m not going to voice it and i encourage everyone else to do the same, being as most of us are lucky to live the lives we do.

anyway, glad to make you chuckle you fucking jerk
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Well I finally appreciate where you coming from, might not agree with all of it but at least I understand it a little more.

I want this whole bloody thing to end.
 
MichiganMMA1978 said:
He's been to court. It was ruled he's basically nothing more than entertainer and his words shouldn't be taken as truth, as per his defense in court lol
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Same with Maddow at MSNBC. This is the course of every opinion journo when they go to court, and MSNBC used this tactic years before Tucker did and crying libs said nothing about it
 
tibba said:
The military line was already further west than those cities for years. I think that's the reason he didn't mention that region at all, as I said i think he's going to come out as a " winner " like everyone bar regular people. But you could be right.

https://images.app.goo.gl/MjzbnpfwFnrXeytf9
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They're still very much Ukrainian cities/regions, despite what Putin thinks.

That's where the fiercest and most experienced of Ukraine's troops are, according to experts, so it's unlikely Zelensky plans to cede them.

For what it's worth, I don't see an end to the conflict because of this.

If he agrees to make those regions independent after 8 years of bloodshed, that will be a huge loss for him. I just don't see it.

Crimea, if anything, is more likely.
 
tibba said:
Not even a screenshot? Reaaaalllly? A pro-Russian website... a pro Ukranian employee.. so... that makes it more likely to be true ? Lol come on and why would the Kremlin be giving any website/ news the accurate figures.. think about it.

" well look ... Here's the accurate military numbers that nobody knows... but here's the numbers I want you too run " reeeeaaaallllyyy?

But sure the mysterious pro Ukranian employee is somehow telling the truth lol.

Come on
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Yesterday the KP was claiming to have been hacked. Now it’s some suspected pro UA employee. Either way changing one line in one article seems kind of odd. Why not multiple articles? If it was just some pro UA employee why wouldn’t they have used the UA claimed number of 15k? Something doesn’t really add up. It is kind of telling that you have taken the existence of this “suspected” pro Ukrainian employee as a fact.
 
Siver! said:
Agreed with your interpretation except that clearly the Donbas has cities in it that Zelensky won't hand over to Russia.

Those cities include Donetsk and Luhansk.

Based on this short statement, I wouldn't say he would agree to the independence of those regions either.
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Pretty sure the compromise is/will be gtfo and we won't join NATO.
 
Source said:
Yesterday the KP was claiming to have been hacked. Now it’s some suspected pro UA employee. Either way changing one line in one article seems kind of odd. If it was just some pro UA employee why wouldn’t they have used the UA claimed number of 15k? It is kind of telling that you have taken the existence of this “suspected” pro Ukrainian employee as a fact.
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Its okay to just admit its probably bullshit bro
 
Da Speeit said:
He could have surrounded it and gone in whatever fashion he was willing to weeks ago. It would have been a mess, but he would have taken it.

So why hasnt he?
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Well they do sort of have it surrounded. They have for a couple weeks. But to "go in"...I don't think it would just necessarily be "messy". I think, depending on your endgame with the city, it could be impossible. He doesn't have the manpower to go door to door and properly clear buildings in a city that size.

Different story if by "taking" it you mean leaving it a pile of rubble. For sure he could have done that whenever he wanted.
 
Da Speeit said:
Same with Maddow at MSNBC. This is the course of every opinion journo when they go to court, and MSNBC used this tactic years before Tucker did and crying libs said nothing about it
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They all suck really. I have a hard time watching any of them.
 
Da Speeit said:
And you’re 100% sure he wants to overthrow the government?
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I'm 100% sure that was his original idea but his options are becoming more limited by the day. It really doesn't look achievable at this point. He's going to inflict pain and try to break their spirit in hopes of at least some kind of favorable deal.
 
Da Speeit said:
I did say this would only last a couple of days and totally underestimate how long Zelensky and the West planned to draw this out.
It should have been over weeks ago
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Honestly, I doubt Putin expected this to be over in a week even in his wild dreams.

I am thinking his advisors got two things wrong: Ukrainian civilians don’t greet Russian soldiers as liberators and Ukrainian military doesn’t surrender the way they expected.

When Russia suffered its heaviest casualties in the first week of this conflict(over 500 dead), they radically changed the tactics, they no longer go inside the cities trying to take them and they don’t march without clear intelligence and air support.
Russian casualties are minimal in the recent weeks despite what you hear from the Ukrainians, but that also stalled the progress. The tactics now is precision strikes on military objects and artillery/air strikes on Ukraine military. The goal now is to encircle big cities and big Ukrainian military groups, cut off their life lines, destroy their fuel supply and then wait until they either our of ammo or food, gas. Then offer them surrender or destroy in progress.

Mariupol is an exception because it’s held by the majority of the Ukrainian nazi battalions, which won’t be taken prisoners, also keep in mind there’s very little of Russian military fighting there, it’s mostly Donetsk army and Chechens.
 
mkess101 said:
Well they do sort of have it surrounded. They have for a couple weeks. But to "go in"...I don't think it would just necessarily be "messy". I think, depending on your endgame with the city, it could be impossible. He doesn't have the manpower to go door to door and properly clear buildings in a city that size.

Different story if by "taking" it you mean leaving it a pile of rubble. For sure he could have done that whenever he wanted.
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It’s possible if Putin is willing to kill thousands and thousands and maybe lose more and plunge himself into a full scale European war. Not counting on that outcome
 
Source said:
Everything is bullshit that doesn’t mean we don’t ask questions.
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You get angry when i ask questions, get flustered, say i should be banned, then mock me for being a dishwasher
 
Siver! said:
Yep, I think it's going to be simple.

Maybe giving them Crimea, but I'm not sure.
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I think Putin will leave with pretty much what he had going in and a shattered economy. If he's lucky, he might get some of the sanctions eased as part of the deal.
 
Source said:
Yesterday the KP was claiming to have been hacked. Now it’s some suspected pro UA employee. Either way changing one line in one article seems kind of odd. Why not multiple articles? If it was just some pro UA employee why wouldn’t they have used the UA claimed number of 15k? Something doesn’t really add up. It is kind of telling that you have taken the existence of this “suspected” pro Ukrainian employee as a fact.
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Lol no I find it all highly unlikely
 
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