Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

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Da Speeit said:
I'm not endorsing the strategy either. I'm saying it's the strategy. What don't you get?
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That russian actions are not a part of any strategy, and instead a reaction to the failures of their leadership.

Being stuck outside of the capital and taking losses is not part of any strategy. It's a failure that the russians find themselves in that they are desperately trying to dig themselves out of. But, given that they lack the capability to conduct anything resembling modern military strategy, have been reduced to holding patterns where they fire rockets as far away as possible to lessen the loss of military hardware and men.

To suggest that the losses russia has taken were intentional, and part of some strategic objective, is dumb. The strategy, if we are willing to debase language and call it that, was to just roll armor down major highways and expect an immediate surrender. When that didn't happen, we see the clusterfuck we have now.
 
Darkballs said:
That russian actions are not a part of any strategy, and instead a reaction to the failures of their leadership.

Being stuck outside of the capital and taking losses is not part of any strategy. It's a failure that the russians find themselves in that they are desperately trying to dig themselves out of. But, given that they lack the capability to conduct anything resembling modern military strategy, have been reduced to holding patterns where they fire rockets as far away as possible to lessen the loss of military hardware and men.

To suggest that the losses russia has taken were intentional, and part of some strategic objective, is dumb. The strategy, if we are willing to debase language and call it that, was to just roll armor down major highways and expect an immediate surrender. When that didn't happen, we see the clusterfuck we have now.
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So what if they don't want the capital?
Why would they? What reasoning for taking the capital would Putin have?
 
Rational Poster said:
Do you?
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Yeah.
I said the floor is 3k, that's the closest estimate reported and I've posted multiple links.
I posted a link from 2 weeks ago that said the state dept doesn't have reliable numbers, and they were your source of estimation.
 
Da Speeit said:
I didn't say it was a brilliant strategy, that's you injecting your own bias into my argument.
I said it's his strategy. Not right, not brilliant, just what's happening

It's Newsweek saying that the narrative that he's stalled out or getting his ass kicked is wrong. This was a well-written article free of the bullshit narratives you guys have convinced yourselves of and has great interviews with experts who methodically take clear actions and diagnosis them then assign possible motive instead of the reverse-osmosis you guys keep entrenching yourselves into.

Don't you think it's strange every time someone posts something contrary to your narrative you have to spin it around into something it's not until it's A) Part of your narrative all along or B)Russian propaganda?
You can't render this article as the latter, so you're trying the former, and it's weaksauce. The gist of the article is that Putin has barely made a push to Kiev, has not targeted civilians, two things I've said at length and been told I am wrong about for weeks, and you still have to find a way to spin it to where, ACKSHULLY IT SAYS YOU'RE WRONG.

This whole "you think Putin is right" shtick is something you have to get over. I don't think he's right, I don't think this move on Ukraine was brilliant, I just am offering a diagnosis of what is going on and why, other than he's an evil retard.
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Can you honestly just clearly state your opinion of the entire conflict and cover the following topics?:

- are you pro-Putin?
- are you pro-Russian oligarch elite?
- are you anti or pro NATO?
- do you believe NATO inherently threatens Russia? If so, how and provide evidence.
- does NATO or Ukraine pose an existential threat to Russia? If so, how and provide evidence.
- do you think former Soviet vassal states that willingly left the USSR are rightful possessions of Russia? Does Russia need to resubjugate these nations to defend Russians?
- do you support fascist, autocratic regimes or do you believe in things like freedom of speech, mostly unfettered capitalism..etc.?
- do you believe autocracy is a superior way of life for all over a more liberal system like democracy that embraces free enterprise?
- do you believe Putin and Russia was backed into a cordner by NATO expansion and had no choice but to invade Ukraine?
- do you believe there was no path forward for Russia around 1999-2000 other than delving back into autocracy or do you think Russia could have embraced Europe and Western economics?

I think if you could honestly expand on the following, it would be helpful for everyone in here. Otherwise, you just seem busy on trying to play foolish logic games and 'gotch-ism' posting. You're wasting people's time offering hardly any real substantive opinion and frankly, you're going to continue getting mocked, derided and called out - if you don't like that, then just be clear.
 
Da Speeit said:
Yeah.
I said the floor is 3k, that's the closest estimate reported and I've posted multiple links.
I posted a link from 2 weeks ago that said the state dept doesn't have reliable numbers, and they were your source of estimation.
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No it wasn't State Department is not the DoD.
 
Da Speeit said:
Sorry, the DIA. My mistake.
So go ahead, post the numbers.
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Russia's own numbers were near 500 dead, 1500 wounded, nearly 3 weeks ago.

Do you think no Russian has died or been wounded since then despite the Russian getting pushed back from multiple areas and losing ground since?
 
Octavian said:
Can you honestly just clearly state your opinion of the entire conflict and cover the following topics?:

- are you pro-Putin?
- are you pro-Russian oligarch elite?
- are you anti or pro NATO?
- do you believe NATO inherently threatens Russia? If so, how and provide evidence.
- does NATO or Ukraine pose an existential threat to Russia? If so, how and provide evidence.
- do you think former Soviet vassal states that willingly left the USSR are rightful possessions of Russia? Does Russia need to resubjugate these nations to defend Russians?
- do you support fascist, autocratic regimes or do you believe in things like freedom of speech, mostly unfettered capitalism..etc.?
- do you believe autocracy is a superior way of life for all over a more liberal system like democracy that embraces free enterprise?
- do you believe Putin and Russia was backed into a cordner by NATO expansion and had no choice but to invade Ukraine?
- do you believe there was no path forward for Russia around 1999-2000 other than delving back into autocracy or do you think Russia could have embraced Europe and Western economics?

I think if you could honestly expand on the following, it would be helpful for everyone in here. Otherwise, you just seem busy on trying to play foolish logic games and 'gotch-ism' posting. You're wasting people's time offering hardly any real substantive opinion and frankly, you're going to continue getting mocked, derided and called out - if you don't like that, then just be clear.
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No
No
Meh
Yes, see: Decades of posturing, supplying weapons and prestige to neighboring countries and saying it's solely to keep Russia in line
Not necessarily
No
You asked two opposed questions so...no and yes
no
no
no

I've made all of this clear before but i imagine it's hard to intellectualize that when you're crying about imaginary genocides.
 
Rational Poster said:
Russia's own numbers were near 500 dead, 1500 wounded, nearly 3 weeks ago.

Do you think no Russian has died or been wounded since then despite the Russian getting pushed back from multiple areas and losing ground since?
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Source your numbers and cut the shit bud
 
Rational Poster said:
I'm using Russia's numbers.

What's wrong with them?
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They're bullshit.
Now post your source for the pentagon's numbers, which is what you said contradicted mine.

You do this with everyone who calls you on your shit, not fooling me. Post the source to your claims or leave me be. I don't feel like going back and forth for pages and pages until you get someone to forget what the original bullshit claim you made was and scurry away.
 
Da Speeit said:
They're bullshit.
Now post your source for the pentagon's numbers, which is what you said contradicted mine.

You do this with everyone who calls you on your shit, not fooling me. Post the source to your claims or leave me be. I don't feel like going back and forth for pages and pages until you get someone to forget what the original bullshit claim you made was and scurry away.
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Good luck. I'm still waiting on his source that Russia was firing thermobaric weapons into residential areas
 
Da Speeit said:
They're bullshit.
Now post your source for the pentagon's numbers, which is what you said contradicted mine.

You do this with everyone who calls you on your shit, not fooling me. Post the source to your claims or leave me be. I don't feel like going back and forth for pages and pages until you get someone to forget what the original bullshit claim you made was and scurry away.
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I'm fine with Russia's numbers in this context.

Russia admitted to 2000 casualties 3 weeks ago.

Do you think there have been more or less casualties since?

Has the conflict intensified or not?
 
A Very Serious Cat said:
Good luck. I'm still waiting on his source that Russia was firing thermobaric weapons into residential areas
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The "well, what about (insert random thing)" is his tell of when he's dead to rights and the same as when @Source brings up that I should be banned and starts bringing my profession, which is personal info not divulged by me and flames me for it (both bannable offenses).
 
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Rational Poster said:
I'm fine with Russia's numbers in this context.

Russia admitted to 2000 casualties 3 weeks ago.

Do you think there have been more or less casualties since?

Has the conflict intensified or not?
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So you don't have a source.
Moving on.
 
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