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International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V15

Good relations with Russia and China as long as we turn a blind eye to their expansionism? And it's not like it isn't hurting our influence if we don't defend the weaker countries they're targeting. Isolationism seems like a good thing but like we saw in WW2 we're a part of the world and just laying back isn't going to protect us in the long run.
So if you see from a neutral point, and from an historic timeline, you think Nato did less expansionism than Russia into other parts of the globe?
You think even if is not a fare argument, is not a somewhat rational one?
 
So if you see from a neutral point, and from an historic timeline, you think Nato did less expansionism than Russia into other parts of the globe?
You think even if is not a fare argument, is not a somewhat rational one?
NATO expands by countries begging to get into the NATO defensive alliance.

Russia expands via warfare.


Don't compare the two like it's the neutral position. You know it's disingenuous.
 
So if you see from a neutral point, and from an historic timeline, you think Nato did less expansionism than Russia into other parts of the globe?
You think even if is not a fare argument, is not a somewhat rational one?

This is such a disingenuous statement.

Imagine thinking that having countries do something voluntarily (in fact jumping through many hoops in order to protect their sovereignty and interests) and being forcibly invaded or manipulated (through various disinformation and covert means) and ultimately stripped of their sovereignty and identity are the same exact thing.

NATO expansion is a Russian disinformation talking point. Name a single war NATO started with Russia since it was formed....now think of every war or military operation Russia started to take over non NATO territory or prevent a Russian territory from gaining their independence...
 
not only do you have to convince a man child of your case, he puts this cunt on..

Trump Put Musk on Phone With Zelensky During Call​

 
Claiming that they did wars because they saw themselves really culturally different is as logical as saying russians is not an European country ergo sharing the same common culture to a degree.
I never said they did wars because they felt culturally different, i said they considered themselves to be different culturally.

You thinking the Russians hate americans for different values and cultural differences and not for geopolitical dominance, is as logical as saying british, germans and french are entire different entities due to wars.
They were different entities back when they were waging wars against each other.


Edit: BTW: Japan as always considered somewhat western since atleast 19th due to being one of the most industrialized countries at the time, and one of the very few that weren't european or North Americans.
This is the most idiotic thing about Japan i have ever read, Japan was up to WW2 almost a theocratic emperorship where the Emperor was absolute monarch and a living god.

That was basically the highest point of contention between the US and Japan when Japan was trying to surrender, to a point where a big chunk of the Japanese military and population believed it would be better to actually get nuked out of existence than surrender the Emperor divinity.
 
Germans and french had like 3 major wars from 1870 to 1944, and only 12 of those almost 70 years were under the period of nazi Germany
And BTW Hitler rose precisely because Germans decided they were their own group separate from all others, and the only reason it gained popularity was because of the deep hatred France and England had against Germans that they put very humilliating surrender conditions in Versailles.
 
This is such a disingenuous statement.

Imagine thinking that having countries do something voluntarily (in fact jumping through many hoops in order to protect their sovereignty and interests) and being forcibly invaded or manipulated (through various disinformation and covert means) and ultimately stripped of their sovereignty and identity are the same exact thing.

NATO expansion is a Russian disinformation talking point. Name a single war NATO started with Russia since it was formed....now think of every war or military operation Russia started to take over non NATO territory or prevent a Russian territory from gaining their independence...
Two companies offering different services.

Company A offers a service people want.

Company B offers a service so shit that people will pick up arms, risk death and murder people so they don't have to deal with it.


Which company do you think will have greater success with their business model?
 
This is such a disingenuous statement.

Imagine thinking that having countries do something voluntarily (in fact jumping through many hoops in order to protect their sovereignty and interests) and being forcibly invaded or manipulated (through various disinformation and covert means) and ultimately stripped of their sovereignty and identity are the same exact thing.

NATO expansion is a Russian disinformation talking point. Name a single war NATO started with Russia since it was formed....now think of every war or military operation Russia started to take over non NATO territory or prevent a Russian territory from gaining their independence...
Don't waste time with him. He is paid troll earning 0.5 rouble for 1 post and soon will earn lesser.
 
This is such a disingenuous statement.

Imagine thinking that having countries do something voluntarily (in fact jumping through many hoops in order to protect their sovereignty and interests) and being forcibly invaded or manipulated (through various disinformation and covert means) and ultimately stripped of their sovereignty and identity are the same exact thing.

NATO expansion is a Russian disinformation talking point. Name a single war NATO started with Russia since it was formed....now think of every war or military operation Russia started to take over non NATO territory or prevent a Russian territory from gaining their independence...
That's a pretty naive analysis, i'm all for our hegemony and contending Russia and China with a little sphere of influence as possible. But saying accepting old Soviet Members into the alliance isn't with the goal of gaining more influence towards Russia is ridiculous.

Old be the same as Cuba , or Mexico being in some pact with Russia and pretty obvious was not tolerated by JFK.
What Biden did was lying to Ukranians and giving them false hopes, Ukraine will never be part of Nato under no scenario possible, it's was a several miscalculation from an horrible president with foreigner affairs, like the Taliban debacle.
 
That's a pretty naive analysis, i'm all for our hegemony and contending Russia and China with a little sphere of influence as possible. But saying accepting old Soviet Members into the alliance isn't with the goal of gaining more influence towards Russia is ridiculous.

Old be the same as Cuba , or Mexico being in some pact with Russia and pretty obvious was not tolerated by JFK.
What Biden did was lying to Ukranians and giving them false hopes, Ukraine will never be part of Nato under no scenario possible, it's was a several miscalculation from an horrible president with foreigner affairs, like the Taliban debacle.

Ukraine never applied to NATO, their NATO membership was never an issue.

Ukraine was merely adopting economic policies to bring them more in line with EU, they weren't even applying to the EU, just expressing their desire to in the future.

All this talk about NATO expanding into Ukraine is disinformation. It's not a real thing.

The one thing that has successfully expanded NATO however is Russia's overt and repeated displays of military aggression toward their neighbors.
 
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Russia would easily obliterate NATO without the USA and Turkey in it
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What war crimes ? For a conflict of this magnitude there hasn’t been that much of brutal war crimes on record. Just look at the Gaza war, its a tiny area compared to Ukraine front yet there’s been much more brutality and war crimes committed
i mean, they invaded another country... their whole occupation Ukrainian territory is a crime.
 
Ukraine never applied to NATO, their NATO membership was never an issue.

Ukraine was merely adopting economic policies to bring them more in like with EU, they weren't even applying to the EU, just expressing their desire to in the future.

All this talk about NATO expanding into Ukraine is disinformation. It's not a real thing.
It is basically pure desinformation thanks to opportunity given by Zelensky administration talking about future in nato and eu.
While even november 2021 th Zelensky administration had cryed that west had maintained constant policy not to sell even for money ukr any heavy weaponary...
Ofc there only an idiot might think that west wanted to accept ukr...
If one clown was dumb and even didn't get what will happen after U.S and Israel had relocated embassy key perssonel from Kiev and navy ships from Black Sea.

So instead of dreaming they might be happy that NATO didn't had sent bidy bags and mobile crematoriums.

NATO is protecting russia more than russian air defense...

It is business and nothing emotional, Zelensky is helping Russia to finance war because 900+ days ensuring smoothly transit of russian stuff for orban, fico and transistria ....


We will take popcorn and watch war laboratorium.
 


People always tout the strength of "General Winter" in Russia.

They never factor in the stealth capability of "Admiral Vodka". ;)
 
Technically Ukraine was not able to join nor NATO nor EU for a simple reason: /they didn't had physically controlled all area they had on paper.....
Also a lot of political players in europe weren't ready to accept ukr.
I do know reasons and euro realpolitik.....


Also under normal process to get EU or NATO membership does take years and ukraine didn't had qualified for this....

If about military ukraine had de militarized 30 years in row while talked nice talks...m

In 1992 th Ukraine had 4200 main battle tanks.
In 2022 th they had approx 900 on paper in working condition.


They also had dramatically reduced number of manpads and sam systems they had ...damn.
 
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