International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V14

[Strychnine]

В Крыму разыскивают двух "диверсанток", отравивших 46 военных РФ и застреливших ФСБшников

В аннексированном Крыму две девушки ликвидировали несколько десятков оккупантов РФ и сотрудников Федеральной службы безопасности.

www.dialog.ua

Two teenage girls poisoned 40+ soldiers, got in a shootout with FSB and got away.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Strychnine]

High stress environment

Jeez! They got ERASED!

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I don't want to play the proxy war game. I don't even want to play the geopolitical game.

I'm just aware of the hard reality that there is no opt out button. If there was an opt out button I'd be mashing it with furor.

But I can't. It doesn't exist. Afghanistan thought there was one though.


This is, as @SandisLL would love to say a Realpolitik issue.

It's not an ideological issue like you seem to think it is.

Ideologically I agree with you. If it were an ideological issue I wouldn't be arguing with you.

I can acknowledge this because unlike you I can conduct a rational debate as an adult. I'm not insecure and when you raise a valid point point I can acknowledge it.

You argue like a petulant child. You can't concede valid points because you think it makes you look weak, or stupid. You think acknowledging you don't know everything makes you look ignorant when in reality the opposite is true.


Once again ideologically you are correct. Afghanistan was horrible. Iraq was horrible.

But they are prime examples of why this game will continue until it is won. Or rather until we win. They are not the examples you think they are.

You said it yourself:

What you got wrong here is that I'm drinking the Kool-aid.

I'm not drinking anything. The masses do and will continue to do so.

Your example is an example of how easy the sell is even when it is fucking absurd. Afghanistan was never a fucking threat. That people could be convinced that it was... it's fucking absurd. But what happened? We bombed the fucking shit out of them.

Why? Because they were too fucking dumb to understand the reality of the situation. They were ideological. They thought because the stance was actually pretty damn fair that they wouldn't be bombed. They didn't know the game. They had their head in the sand like you. They were the fucking down syndrome kid that didn't realize they were wearing the wrong singlet.

How did that turn out?



How does afghanistan compare to the current geopolitical situation? Much, much harder sell.

Convincing Chinese people that the west is a threat. That's an easy sell.
Convincing The West that China is a threat. That's an easy sell.

A hard sell is convincing the west that Sweden is a threat. A hard sell is convincing Norway is a threat. A hard sell is convincing the west that Australia is a threat. Or that you Canadians are a threat.


The only way out of this game is to win it. Democracy for all.

The US and Russia are playing this game but I think Canada could very easily get out without too many repercussions.

 

[SandisLL]

I don't want to play the proxy war game. I don't even want to play the geopolitical game.

I'm just aware of the hard reality that there is no opt out button. If there was an opt out button I'd be mashing it with furor.

But I can't. It doesn't exist. Afghanistan thought there was one though.


This is, as @SandisLL would love to say a Realpolitik issue.

It's not an ideological issue like you seem to think it is.

Ideologically I agree with you. If it were an ideological issue I wouldn't be arguing with you.

I can acknowledge this because unlike you I can conduct a rational debate as an adult. I'm not insecure and when you raise a valid point point I can acknowledge it.

You argue like a petulant child. You can't concede valid points because you think it makes you look weak, or stupid. You think acknowledging you don't know everything makes you look ignorant when in reality the opposite is true.


Once again ideologically you are correct. Afghanistan was horrible. Iraq was horrible.

But they are prime examples of why this game will continue until it is won. Or rather until we win. They are not the examples you think they are.

You said it yourself:

What you got wrong here is that I'm drinking the Kool-aid.

I'm not drinking anything. The masses do and will continue to do so.

Your example is an example of how easy the sell is even when it is fucking absurd. Afghanistan was never a fucking threat. That people could be convinced that it was... it's fucking absurd. But what happened? We bombed the fucking shit out of them.

Why? Because they were too fucking dumb to understand the reality of the situation. They were ideological. They thought because the stance was actually pretty damn fair that they wouldn't be bombed. They didn't know the game. They had their head in the sand like you. They were the fucking down syndrome kid that didn't realize they were wearing the wrong singlet.

How did that turn out?



How does afghanistan compare to the current geopolitical situation? Much, much harder sell.

Convincing Chinese people that the west is a threat. That's an easy sell.
Convincing The West that China is a threat. That's an easy sell.

A hard sell is convincing the west that Sweden is a threat. A hard sell is convincing Norway is a threat. A hard sell is convincing the west that Australia is a threat. Or that you Canadians are a threat.


The only way out of this game is to win it. Democracy for all.

Unfortunately for russsians in russia it is easy to sell that any country is a threat....they are different mindset ppl and brainwashed with state run propaganda during 700+ years.

It is proven realpolitik in russia.
First experinent: old believers are threat and new orthodox believers are blessed by God.
Second experiment : Tzar is blessed by God.
Both experiments were succesful.
Third experiment: communism will make everyone happy. Successful.
Fourth experiment : for all bad things are responsible remainings of capitalism and therefore purges and GULAG are necessity.
Fifth : for all bad things former partners in Nazi Germany and Fachist Italy are responsible.
Further: bad west is our enemy despite lend lease etc assistance....
Next: we almost alone had won WW2...
Next: bad west is responsible.
Then : now again bad west is responsible.


Plebs are dying in trenches, " protected " so called russian speakers are in poverty while russian billionaires during last year had increased their wealth by more than +50b .....
Ants anyway are statisfied and bad west & dangerous ukraine are responsible....

Oligarchs kids are driving luxurous cars and uses servants, are pursuing education in expensive western unis, doing businesses around all world....
Poor ppl kids are hired to liberate minefields in avdiivka.....
Population anyway is happy ...

To sell idea that even the same Sweden or Canada is existential threat to russia IN Russia will be easy ....their propagandists are top notch brainwashing specialists taught by excellent experts in russians brain programming....world class experts in this sub field niche...

Canada or Norway ofc will not be portrayed as nuclear armed threat....while propaganists easily might tell that they soon will build secret deadly biolabs and install hackers farms etc stuff... average russian in russia will swallow this easily.

 

[Orgasmo]

I don't want to play the proxy war game. I don't even want to play the geopolitical game.

I'm just aware of the hard reality that there is no opt out button. If there was an opt out button I'd be mashing it with furor.

But I can't. It doesn't exist. Afghanistan thought there was one though.


This is, as @SandisLL would love to say a Realpolitik issue.

It's not an ideological issue like you seem to think it is.

Ideologically I agree with you. If it were an ideological issue I wouldn't be arguing with you.

I can acknowledge this because unlike you I can conduct a rational debate as an adult. I'm not insecure and when you raise a valid point point I can acknowledge it.

You argue like a petulant child. You can't concede valid points because you think it makes you look weak, or stupid. You think acknowledging you don't know everything makes you look ignorant when in reality the opposite is true.


Once again ideologically you are correct. Afghanistan was horrible. Iraq was horrible.

But they are prime examples of why this game will continue until it is won. Or rather until we win. They are not the examples you think they are.

You said it yourself:

What you got wrong here is that I'm drinking the Kool-aid.

I'm not drinking anything. The masses do and will continue to do so.

Your example is an example of how easy the sell is even when it is fucking absurd. Afghanistan was never a fucking threat. That people could be convinced that it was... it's fucking absurd. But what happened? We bombed the fucking shit out of them.

Why? Because they were too fucking dumb to understand the reality of the situation. They were ideological. They thought because the stance was actually pretty damn fair that they wouldn't be bombed. They didn't know the game. They had their head in the sand like you. They were the fucking down syndrome kid that didn't realize they were wearing the wrong singlet.

How did that turn out?



How does afghanistan compare to the current geopolitical situation? Much, much harder sell.

Convincing Chinese people that the west is a threat. That's an easy sell.
Convincing The West that China is a threat. That's an easy sell.

A hard sell is convincing the west that Sweden is a threat. A hard sell is convincing Norway is a threat. A hard sell is convincing the west that Australia is a threat. Or that you Canadians are a threat.


The only way out of this game is to win it. Democracy for all.

Geopolitics is a game between great powers. Canada is not a great power. It does not share a border with Russia or Europe for that matter. Canada has greatly diminished militarily, economically and diplomatically in recent years due to mismanagement by the Liberals. Jumping on the Murican bandwagon to antagonize Russia and China half way across the world might serve Murican interest, but it does not serve ours. We're not your client state, not our fight. Realpolitik for you looks a lot different than Realpolitik for us.

Ukraine as it currently stands, is on the defensive. It lacks the manpower, equipment, money and industrial capacity to sustain a war of attrition without foreign aid against Russia. It doesn't even have enough money to pay its government workers and soldiers without Murican funding. In all likelihood (which you disagree), it suffered just as many casualties if not more than Russia given its disadvantages in military capabilities. Millions have fled the country since the war started and they're having severe manpower shortage despite constantly mobilization drives. They are now resorting to drafting women and forcefully conscripting men. The point is that Ukraine will remain a bottomless pit that has little to do with Canada, and yet we're feeding into it. You want to contain Russia with your proxy war, go nuts. Canada should not be involved in this mess, not when the Canadian Forces itself are in shambles.

Funny you mention democracy for all. You historically had no problem propping up dictators and training their death squads. It's like a whore advertising the virtues of virginity. Play your game, but don't pretend to be the good guys.

 

[SandisLL]

The US and Russia are playing this game but I think Canada could very easily get out without too many repercussions.

No.
Because it isn't some kind of US vs Russia game.
It is much more complicated game about New World Order they wants to establish and....russia is pawn in this game...useful, rich with resources and population easy to brainwash.

This multipoluse idea is much more complicated than initially might look ........

You will not get out from this GAME unfortunately and Axis & oligarchs will play this one regardless will some ukraine or U.S exist or they didn't had existed......

It is complicate game to create new power centers in world and to prove that countries borders might be changed with force.
Something like mix of XVI century flowchart and moder era capitalism...with oligarchs...who will not fall out of windows IF will support modern era emperors...

 

[Limbo Pete]

Geopolitics is a game between great powers. Canada is not a great power. It does not share a border with Russia or Europe for that matter. Canada has greatly diminished militarily, economically and diplomatically in recent years due to mismanagement by the Liberals. Jumping on the Murican bandwagon to antagonize Russia and China half way across the world might serve Murican interest, but it does not serve ours. We're not your client state, not our fight. Realpolitik for you looks a lot different than Realpolitik for us.

Ukraine as it currently stands, is on the defensive. It lacks the manpower, equipment, money and industrial capacity to sustain a war of attrition without foreign aid against Russia. It doesn't even have enough money to pay its government workers and soldiers without Murican funding. In all likelihood (which you disagree), it suffered just as many casualties if not more than Russia given its disadvantages in military capabilities. Millions have fled the country since the war started and they're having severe manpower shortage despite constantly mobilization drives. They are now resorting to drafting women and forcefully conscripting men. The point is that Ukraine will remain a bottomless pit that has little to do with Canada, and yet we're feeding into it. You want to contain Russia with your proxy war, go nuts. Canada should not be involved in this mess, not when the Canadian Forces itself are in shambles.

Funny you mention democracy for all. You historically had no problem propping up dictators and training their death squads. It's like a whore advertising the virtues of virginity. Play your game, but don't pretend to be the good guys.

Geopolitics is between "great powers", eh? Well I guess that rules out Russia
The fuck out of here with this Mearschiemer horseshit

 

[SandisLL]

The US and Russia are playing this game but I think Canada could very easily get out without too many repercussions.

No.
Because it isn't some kind of US vs Russia game.
It is much more complicated game about New World Order they wants to establish and....russia is pawn in this game...useful, rich with resources and population easy to brainwash.

This multipoluse idea is much more complicated than initially might look ........

You will not get out from this GAME unfortunately and Axis & oligarchs will play this one regardless will some ukraine or U.S exist or they didn't had existed......

It is complicate game to create new power centers in world and to prove that countries borders might be changed with force.
Something like mix of XVI century flowchart and moder era capitalism...with oligarchs...who will not fall out of windows IF will support modern era emperors

 

[SandisLL]

Isolationist like Orgasmo is casual voter dreaming like Chamberlain in 1938 th....nothing else here, history repeats.

When Canada will ask to help their merchant fleet security in Red Sea, Suez and europe then he will remember stuff posted by him here that this shit isn't Canada's problem. I hope Canada does have navy capable to protect their civilians in europe and Suez, Red Sea and Panama Canal etc.... ??????

When shit will start in SK and maybe some test missile from Kim will fall in Canada, I hope he will remember his posts.
Not likely Kim initially will accidentally strike U.S cos these does have nukes and large fleet etc. While accidental landing of some test missile in South Korea , Japan or Canada is more pragmatic scenario in such scenario....

Cool will be also his trolling if NK missile accidetally will land on SK.... Prices soon will surprise such poster if he really is located in Canada not in Russia....

Support $$$ then will be so " small " that current supposed support for ukr will look like ....tips in fast food.....
People doesn't learn from history and therefore are dumb and will be dumb. Hitler knew this and Putin too does knows how dumb is average journalist or voter in west. Nothing had changed.

 

[SandisLL]

1938 th.
Chamberlain. Let's negotiate with Hitler. We don't need to bother with village like Suddetenland. Japan and Hitler aren't threat for us.
_/
Reality: Hitler already had plan to annex western europe and attack U.K.

While there game should had been done in multiple steps.
A. Annex some areas in order to get more manpower and natural resources and manpower to be used against cool and nice west....
B. To boost up weapons and ammo production as much as it is technically possible.

C. Hitler knew that he doesn't have enough strong navy to compete with U.K navy.
While there's solution in Japan obsessed with imperialism.
IF U.K will be forced to use part of his fleet in Pacific and Asia, then Hitler backed by Mussolini might had chances to annex western europe and attack U.K.
This had happened despite a lot of " pundits " in 1938 th stated for plebs that Hitler and Japan aren't serious threat for U.K.
In U.S even in 1940 th enough ppl had openly posted that Japan can't posess serious threats for U.S ....

LOL.

 

[PEB]

This is BS something tells me what is going on with Saudi Arabia and India tells me why they are dragging their feet.

 

[ferrisjso]

Geopolitics is a game between great powers. Canada is not a great power. It does not share a border with Russia or Europe for that matter. Canada has greatly diminished militarily, economically and diplomatically in recent years due to mismanagement by the Liberals. Jumping on the Murican bandwagon to antagonize Russia and China half way across the world might serve Murican interest, but it does not serve ours. We're not your client state, not our fight. Realpolitik for you looks a lot different than Realpolitik for us.

Ukraine as it currently stands, is on the defensive. It lacks the manpower, equipment, money and industrial capacity to sustain a war of attrition without foreign aid against Russia. It doesn't even have enough money to pay its government workers and soldiers without Murican funding. In all likelihood (which you disagree), it suffered just as many casualties if not more than Russia given its disadvantages in military capabilities. Millions have fled the country since the war started and they're having severe manpower shortage despite constantly mobilization drives. They are now resorting to drafting women and forcefully conscripting men. The point is that Ukraine will remain a bottomless pit that has little to do with Canada, and yet we're feeding into it. You want to contain Russia with your proxy war, go nuts. Canada should not be involved in this mess, not when the Canadian Forces itself are in shambles.

Funny you mention democracy for all. You historically had no problem propping up dictators and training their death squads. It's like a whore advertising the virtues of virginity. Play your game, but don't pretend to be the good guys.

To them democracy only matters when capitalism wins. When capitalism loses or is about to lose they never ever live up to their rhetoric.

 

[lsa]

This is BS something tells me what is going on with Saudi Arabia and India tells me why they are dragging their feet.

and whats the BS?
The video says the Ukrainian are still training. In UK its even dry training, learning English.

Also one problem is the Danish F35 from US are delayed due to some upgrades.
Which can be an issue. Denmark need to have fighters.

 

[PEB]

Man those M1 Abrams will not be able to move through the Ukrainian muddy conditions lol.

 

[PEB]

There maybe hope for additional US support to Ukraine sending more weapons. The recent conditions in congress seem to be deteriorating fast on the Republican side. It looks like as more potential support for Ukraine is going to happen later then most would like but it seems to be tilting that way. Even though polling very fixed polling shows US public support seems to be weakening on the ground seems to be very different. It's amazing how they questions are framed how people respond. If you talk to these same people their positions do seem less negative towards Ukraine.

 

[PEB]

and whats the BS?
The video says the Ukrainian are still training. In UK its even dry training, learning English.

Also one problem is the Danish F35 from US are delayed due to some upgrades.
Which can be an issue. Denmark need to have fighters.

This dance class has been going on for over 18 months. Language issues or not plenty of Ukrainian pilots speak english seen them doing simulator training over a year ago. These situations going on seemed to question why the constant delays. They said they would be ready to put into service in Dec 2023 now they are saying not till April or May and US saying Sept seriously.

 

[lsa]

This dance class has been going on for over 18 months. Language issues or not plenty of Ukrainian pilots speak english seen them doing simulator training over a year ago. These situations going on seemed to question why the constant delays. They said they would be ready to put into service in Dec 2023 now they are saying not till April or May and US saying Sept seriously.

They pilots in Denmark are still in training, latest news are its not completed.
Also Danes never said a 100% date they aimed for late 2023.
It might be up to 6 months later so spring early summer.
And again the Danes new planes are also delayed.
It might be good to at least have SOME new planes before giving yours away.

You also should realize that the Danes gave away brand new Ceasars from France that they them self desperately needs.
They have also ordered and paid for brand new CV90 that will go straight to Ukraine, while the Danes in some cases has to move their own tanks by trucks to training fields because they in such bad shape.



Also the danish minister of defense issued a statement about giving the planes in August 2023. 20 of August. I am no math wizz but thats not 18 months ago.

"STATEMENT ON STRENGTHENING OF THE UKRAINIAN AIR FORCE – DONATION OF F16

In light of Russia’s brutal and unprovoked aggression, Denmark and the Netherlands, supported by the US, share the conviction that continued support to Ukraine is of utmost importance.

Taking note of the establishment of the joint coalition on F16-training, we agree that the natural next step will be the transfer of F-16 fighter aircrafts. Donation of aircrafts will be vital for efforts related to ensuring Ukraine a fully functional F-16 capability.
We agree to transfer F-16 aircrafts to Ukraine and the Ukrainian Air Force in close cooperation with the U.S. and other partners, when the conditions for such a transfer are met. Conditions include, but are not limited to, successfully selected, tested and trained Ukrainian F-16 personnel as well as necessary authorizations, infrastructure and logistics."

 

[grimballer]

To them democracy only matters when capitalism wins. When capitalism loses or is about to lose they never ever live up to their rhetoric.

by "democracy" they really mean:

"you better accept our values and neoliberalism"

 

[AWilder]

Idiots believe this is true <45>

 

[AWilder]