International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V13

[Limbo Pete]

You wanna know who really doesn't support self determination for Ukraine and Ukrainians?
Russia.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Supporting self-determination for Ukraine, but not for Ukrainians is peak hypocrisy among other things.

I’m worried you think you’re making a good point.

 

[Rod1]

Supporting self-determination for Ukraine, but not for Ukrainians is peak hypocrisy among other things.

This is on the "paying taxes is theft" kind of moronic argument.

All nations have obligations associated with citizenship, for the most part these obligations involve following the law and paying taxes, but in dire circumstances (like being invaded) the obligation may be to enlist in the defense of the country.

 

[Bojka]

This is on the "paying taxes is theft" kind of moronic argument.

All nations have obligations associated with citizenship, for the most part these obligations involve following the law and paying taxes, but in dire circumstances (like being invaded) the obligation may be to enlist in the defense of the country.

Being sent to your death is a bit different from paying taxes. I pay taxes.

I would compare it more to the feudal system of the Polish Kingdom. It is only the modern day peasants fighting on the frontlines. Funny enough, the concept of Ukraine was born out of disregard for feudal law. It being law didn't mean that it should be obeyed.

None of you guys actually care about Ukrainians. That's rather obvious. You care about Russia losing and I guess western hegemony. Not that any of that matters as none of you have any influence whatsoever and so you just froth at the mouth day in and day out in this mega-thread.

I went to a Ukrainian festival here in Canada that I go to yearly and was shocked by the number of fighting age males that made it here. Hope to see a lot more next year.

 

[Rod1]

Being sent to your death is a bit different from paying taxes. I pay taxes.

And ensuring the survival of a country is a bit different than building roads.

Resisting a foreign invasion and ensuring the safety of its people is the most basic element of a State.

I would compare it more to the feudal system of the Polish Kingdom. It is only the modern day peasants fighting on the frontlines. Funny enough, the concept of Ukraine was born out of disregard for feudal law. It being law didn't mean it should be obeyed.

Compare it more with a modern day Mongol invasion, if the peasant refuses to fight he will still get his village torched down.

None of you guys actually care about Ukrainians. That's rather obvious.

I care way more about Ukrainians than pro-Russian shills who suddenly became peaceniks and libertarians when it comes to criticizing Ukraine efforts to ensure the survival of its State.

You care about Russia losing and I guess western hegemony.

True, my main interest in this affair is about Russia being diminished into the pariah state it rightfully deserves to have.

Not that any of that matters as none of you have any influence whatsoever and so you just froth at the mouth day in and day out in this mega-thread.

Yup, i however don't paint myself as a bleeding heart libertarian who cares about "peasants" getting drafted.

I went to a Ukrainian festival here in Canada that I go to yearly and was shocked by the number of fighting age males that made it here. Hope to see a lot more next year.

I hope the same, hopefully by next year some sense has entered Russian leadership and we will finally have peace.

 

[Bojka]

And ensuring the survival of a country is a bit different than building roads.

Resisting a foreign invasion and ensuring the safety of its people is the most basic element of a State.



Compare it more with a modern day Mongol invasion, if the peasant refuses to fight he will still get his village torched down.



I care way more about Ukrainians than pro-Russian shills who suddenly became peaceniks and libertarians when it comes to criticizing Ukraine efforts to ensure the survival of its State.



True, my main interest in this affair is about Russia being diminished into the pariah state it rightfully deserves to have.



Yup, i however don't paint myself as a bleeding heart libertarian who cares about "peasants" getting drafted.



I hope the same, hopefully by next year some sense has entered Russian leadership and we will finally have peace.

The Ukrainian people did not fight the Mongols 'to the last Ukrainian' as is being talked about now. They fled west to what became Halych-Volhynia or north I guess to what eventually became Russia. Both ended up paying tribute to the Mongols. If they fought 'to the last Ukrainian' there would be no Ukrainians to talk about today.

Calling someone whose family is from west-central Ukraine a pro-Russian shill is a bit rich.

But you literally have Putin as your avatar. You are basically a meme who just wants him to lose at any and all cost and I am not sure why I am even taking you seriously.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Calling someone whose family is from west-central Ukraine a pro-Russian shill is a bit rich.

If the boot fits

 

[Bojka]

If the boot fits

The wrong boot can appear to fit when you have a sub-90 IQ.

 

[Rod1]

The Ukrainian people did not fight the Mongols 'to the last Ukrainian' as is being talked about now.

The only ones who use "to the last Ukrainians" are Pro-Russian shills.

There is nothing Zelensky can do to make Ukrainians fight, he isn't superman and he doesn't has the repression security apparatus that Putin has, no FSB, no Rosvgardia, no Akhmat.

Just like Yanukovych couldn't stay in power without popular support, neither can Zelensky.

But you literally have Putin as your avatar. You are basically a meme who just wants him to lose at any and all cost and I am not sure why I am even taking you seriously.

If people were so against the war as you claim there would be no Zelensky at this point.

They fled west to what became Halych-Volhynia or north I guess to what eventually became Russia. Both ended up paying tribute to the Mongols. If they fought 'to the last Ukrainian' there would be no Ukrainians to talk about today.

We were talking about Poland, now you bring Ukrainians? this of course is a different scenario because Ukraine got trounced against the Golden Horde so there was no way to resist whatsoever in that scenario.

If Russia had conquered Ukraine in three days you would have a point.

Calling someone whose family is from west-central Ukraine a pro-Russian shill is a bit rich.

Russian shill is as Russian shill does, maybe stop shilling for Russia and people will stop calling you that.

But you literally have Putin as your avatar. You are basically a meme who just wants him to lose at any and all cost and I am not sure why I am even taking you seriously.

Not really, i would rather Putin remain in power and not have someone crazier than him in power, i just want Putin to get the hell away from Ukraine.

But apparently thinking Russia should respect Ukraine borders is equivalent to being a "meme".

 

[Limbo Pete]

The wrong boot can appear to fit when you have a sub-90 IQ.

 

[SandisLL]

Latvian parliament had approved next lethal aid package for Ukraine for september 2023 th while yet didn't had signed any new warrant letter for loans Ukr now is asking.
They earlier had signed some warrant letters.

 

[AWilder]

Sorry for an OT post but its not really worth making a thread over.
And I suspect it has to do with Russia / NATO / Ukraine in some way.
Is something going down?

A Lockheed C-5 Galaxy from USAF has landed in Sweden today.
Swedish military claims they dont know why.
"They have applied for and been granted permission to enter Swedish airspace and then land," says Fredrik Helmertz, on-duty communications officer at the Swedish Armed Forces"

having flown on a few C5s there's a 99% chance it broke down.

We used to joke that when these line up on the runway for takeoff it's like that scene from StarWars where they Millennium Falcon won't go into hyperspace.

 

[PEB]

 

[PEB]

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Oh another neutral has entered the discussion. It was almost boring for a while.

Not every Ukrainian male has to go to the front. If someone has an issue with fighting (conscientious objector) there are plenty of jobs to be done in relative safety.

Just like in the US military, there are plenty of soldiers performing logistics and other non combat duty. Although some of them make dumb posts afterwards.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Oh another neutral has entered the discussion. It was almost boring for a while.

Not every Ukrainian male has to go to the front. If someone has an issue with fighting (conscientious objector) there are plenty of jobs to be done in relative safety.

Just like in the US military, there are plenty of soldiers performing logistics and other non combat duty. Although some of them make dumb posts afterwards.

The whole thing is just such a transparent bothsides/false equivalency contrarian load. I wonder if guys like that think they are actually clever? As if we don't see through their lame attempts at apologetics and hand waving?

 

[Boxiana]

The whole thing is just such a transparent bothsides/false equivalency contrarian load. I wonder if guys like that think they are actually clever? As if we don't see through their lame attempts at apologetics and hand waving?

There are lots of problems with this thread, but putting aside the usual suspects the main issue is that whilst various posters may have different opinions on what victory for Ukraine and defeat for Russia could look like, there is zero tolerance for any actual discussion of these viewpoints.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

And ensuring the survival of a country is a bit different than building roads.

Resisting a foreign invasion and ensuring the safety of its people is the most basic element of a State.



Compare it more with a modern day Mongol invasion, if the peasant refuses to fight he will still get his village torched down.



I care way more about Ukrainians than pro-Russian shills who suddenly became peaceniks and libertarians when it comes to criticizing Ukraine efforts to ensure the survival of its State.



True, my main interest in this affair is about Russia being diminished into the pariah state it rightfully deserves to have.



Yup, i however don't paint myself as a bleeding heart libertarian who cares about "peasants" getting drafted.



I hope the same, hopefully by next year some sense has entered Russian leadership and we will finally have peace.

You know they're taking voluteers right? If you care so much. Go fight.

 

[Limbo Pete]

There are lots of problems with this thread, but putting aside the usual suspects the main issue is that whilst various posters may have different opinions on what victory for Ukraine and defeat for Russia could look like, there is zero tolerance for any actual discussion of these viewpoints.

Well you know... not all "viewpoints" are created equally. Neither I nor anyone else has any obligation to treat Russian apologetics diarrhea as anything other than the hot shit mess it actually is.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

Well you know... not all "viewpoints" are created equally. Neither I nor anyone else has any obligation to treat Russian apologetics diarrhea as anything other than the hot shit mess it actually is.

Shocker. The Dem doesn't believe in free speech.