International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V13

[PEB]

This could turn out interesting lol.

"Russian Foreign Ministry has rejected China's apparent claim of ownership over a disputed island that has been a source of tension between Moscow and Beijing for decades."

"
Earlier this week, the Chinese Communist Party mouthpiece Global Times newspaper published the "2023 edition of China's standard map," crediting the Ministry of Natural Resources.

The map touches on multiple territorial disputes, among them Bolshoi Ussuriysky Island, which sits at the confluence of the Ussuri and Amur rivers that separate Russia and China. The island is known as Heixiazi, or Black Bear, in Chinese."


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...ence-china-map-disputed-islands-1823983?amp=1

 

[SandisLL]

I'm asking.

Why transit of goods and people is still allowed through Lithuania to Kaliningrad oblast and why weaklings like Poland and other nations bordering with Rus and Belarus didn't shut their borders with rogue nations ages ago? And embassies completely withdrawn.

We pretend to hamstring and dislike Rus but doing next to nothing about it.

Yea keep dreaming on weak ass west weaklings.

Weakling Poland had supplied Ukraine 350 main battle tanks.
Strong and nice U.S till today de facto 0 main battle tank.
I hope that U.S will accept all these Ukr refugees Poland does have, it is small batch, just some more than 1 200 000 000 and will grant them benefits paid in U.S.

Weakling Poland had supplied Ukraine fighter jets, despite old ....
U.S no.

So weak they are.
If United States weren't so weak, this war didn't happened.

A lot of weak steps proved that U.S had lost moral hegemony.
Removal of navy ships from Black Sea was one from multiple signals.
Obama was stronger despite talks done for public.

 

[Denter]

You are talking about this Ukrainian advance (map below)? Yeah, 6 miles due South is a massive offensive movement. They have this war won! Look at the map and what is to their South, East, and West. They have another 95 miles due South to conquer. Are tanks getting in there? How many Ukrainians died to take that 'small' amount of ground? How many Ukrainian soldiers are still left to fight in this conflict. ...and the Russian counteroffensive:

The Elastic defense:

In the current Russian defensive approach, a front line of troops most often meets the initial attack but then falls back to prepared defensive positions manned with other Russian troops. The Ukrainians generally advance several hundred meters or up to a kilometer or so, taking losses from mines, artillery, and helicopter and/or drone strikes, and getting tired as they do. When the local Russian commander judges the moment to be right, Russian forces then launch a counterattack to push the Ukrainians back to their original positions, which often succeeds. This approach is generally optimal as it causes the attack to expend much of its power making initial small-scale gains against limited numbers of Russian defenders such that the Russian counter-attacking forces have a relatively easier time pushing them back. Russian forces have in some instances – particularly in early June – repelled Ukrainian attacks without needing to temporarily fall back, most often through the devastating use of anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) fired both by ground forces and Russian attack helicopters.

The elastic defense is tactically effective, but it puts a significant burden on the defenders. They have to receive the brunt of a prepared Ukrainian attack each time, withdraw in good order in the face of it, and then either motivate themselves or have a second line of forces motivated enough to launch and press a counterattack. The tactical engagement thus ebbs and flows in a very dynamic manner with a lot of moving and fighting that is concealed by the fact that the control lines on the map remain the same at the end of the day as they were at the start.

The elastic defense exhausts the attackers, as it is meant to, and inflicts losses on them without allowing them to make permanent gains. But it also takes a heavy toll on the defenders, who must remain motivated and able to continue to launch counterattacks from prepared and defensible positions each time. Exhaustion, losses, and demoralization can all undermine the willingness and ability of defenders to continue launching those counterattacks, especially when the same units and same soldiers have to keep doing it for weeks and months on end without relief, as is the case here because of the current Russian rotational policies.

* Get back to me when the Ukrainian Army runs out of soldiers in this conflict.

Do we know what the Ru AF rotation policy is?

 

[Denter]

...but Ukraine has less soldiers than Russia. Total losses in proportion to the size of their Army - and replacements or lack thereof.
Only time will tell who is right.

IMO it's probably better to see who can train, equipment, move and sustain forces in greater numbers and faster. Of course we'll have no idea, because these are military secrets.

 

[SandisLL]

Do we know what the Ru AF rotation policy is?

It depends from unit IMHO.
Also supplies are different.

Some units are supplied really well, some had....summer clothing in winter 2022 /2023.
Not alone they in reality had lost " captured " by Ukr tanks mainly because lubricants and fuel weren't delivered in time...therefore lads abadoned tanks.
Otherwise russians usually when ordered to relocate, prefered to do this with all their tank.

 

[Rod1]

Ah, that is why they were made. To penetrate tank armor. What else would you use DU munitions on?

To shower people with 30mm rounds of an A10 gun

 

[Boxiana]

You'd think it would do something for morale and willingness to fight if the male family members of Zelensky and his wife were known to be fighting on the frontlines.

It might, until they started getting killed / injured and the casualty rates on the frontlines became clear to people.

 

[San Marino]

Do we know what the Ru AF rotation policy is?

I'm not sure this statement on the article is correct. If so, I don't think it applies to all Russian units in theater. The OGRT has been mentioned as rotating once every six months. I believe the rest are in it for the duration. I believe those one-year draft contracts are out the window during wartime. Similar to the US 'stop-loss' program during Iraq and Afghanistan when we (US) began to have a shortage of manpower in theater. We had no draft. The US Army and Marines began to give big bonuses for anyone from the Navy and Air Force to switch branches. Standards were lowered (like now) to help recruit people. There was a short period when officers were direct commissioned. No ROTC or OCS.

 

[San Marino]

To shower people with 30mm rounds of an A10 gun.

You don't need depleted uranium rounds for that. Plus, these are expensive rounds to make. There is more toxic danger from lead bullets.

 

[Hog-train]

This could turn out interesting lol.

"Russian Foreign Ministry has rejected China's apparent claim of ownership over a disputed island that has been a source of tension between Moscow and Beijing for decades."

"
Earlier this week, the Chinese Communist Party mouthpiece Global Times newspaper published the "2023 edition of China's standard map," crediting the Ministry of Natural Resources.

The map touches on multiple territorial disputes, among them Bolshoi Ussuriysky Island, which sits at the confluence of the Ussuri and Amur rivers that separate Russia and China. The island is known as Heixiazi, or Black Bear, in Chinese."


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/russia-breaks-silence-china-map-disputed-islands-1823983?amp=1

I cannot stand China constantly doing this shit. Fuck them.

 

[Cole train]

I believe @Rod1 was quite correct, well it's as valid a explanation for Falluja rates of birth defects and other issues that have arisen for those unfortunate people, that I've seen.




That a10 firing 4200 du rounds a minute would leave a insane amount of microscopic fragments of depleted uranium. Microscopic fragments is what seems to be the biggest cause rather than the larger anti tank rounds used in tank warfare.

Although microscopic fragments without a doubt would be created even in the tank warfare, seems likely the majority of blame goes to the a10 in Falluja.

It's also a topic that there is vested interest in not linking the two . ( du and birth defects)

I personally think rod1 is correct Falluja has insane levels due to the mass firing of rounds. But I think it all plays at a part. ( tank on tank ) To what extent is the billion dollar question.

Can't blame Ukraine for using them as Russia does and they need everything they can possibly use to create parity.

I hope the future Ukrainian generations aren't going to wear any repercussions from a few of the current decisions being made tho

However, using data published in the report [3] it appeared that the cancer and leukemia death rates in the entire all-Iraq 0-4 group were about three or four times the levels found in western populations for this age group (Table (Table1).1). These rates were three times higher in the South where Depleted Uranium (DU) was employed in the major tank battles near the Kuwait border (53 per 100,000 per year) than in the North (18 per 100,000 per year) where there was less fighting and where DU was not employed to such an extent [4]. Furthermore, cancer and leukemia rates were highest in the 0-1 year group, which is unusual; the main peak in childhood cancer is generally found at age 4.

Fallujah was being bombed with white phosphorous on everything and everyone plus other stuff for chemical weaponry, basically testing ground for stuff

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah,_The_Hidden_Massacre

"In 2012 a study, released by the Switzerland-based International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, showed that in the years following Operation Phantom Fury there had been a 4-fold increase in all cancers, including a 12-fold increases in childhood cancer in those aged 0–14.[9] Nadim al-Hadid, spokesperson of Falluja Hospital declared: "In 2004 the Americans tested all kinds of chemicals and explosive devices on us: thermobaric weapons, white phosphorus, depleted uranium... we have all been laboratory mice for them".[10]"

Btw crazy you can find news articles from 2005.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ukfs/hi/newsid_4440000/newsid_4441700/4441798.stm

 

[SandisLL]

Fallujah was being bombed with white phosphorous on everything and everyone plus other stuff for chemical weaponry, basically testing ground for stuff

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah,_The_Hidden_Massacre

"In 2012 a study, released by the Switzerland-based International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, showed that in the years following Operation Phantom Fury there had been a 4-fold increase in all cancers, including a 12-fold increases in childhood cancer in those aged 0–14.[9] Nadim al-Hadid, spokesperson of Falluja Hospital declared: "In 2004 the Americans tested all kinds of chemicals and explosive devices on us: thermobaric weapons, white phosphorus, depleted uranium... we have all been laboratory mice for them".[10]"

Wikipedia is source that might be eddited by everyone.
It is cool source while you should value reference sources for each article and I do know that you in reality want to see Finland to be incorporated in Russian Federation as some Oblastsjs of Russian Federation.

 

[Devil's_Advocate]

Looks like up to 9 Russian planes in total were damaged or destroyed at the Pskov airfield.

It's hilarious using 3500$ cardboard drones to destroy multi million dollar planes.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/01/cardboard-drones-eyed-in-strikes-on-russian-airfields/

 

[SandisLL]

For Ukrainians one chance is if Pence will be elected as POTUS.
In worst case Biden again. Trump will be end of the game for them.
United States fears from Russia a lot and already had lost moral status as world hegemon.
Russia nor military nor financially is not capable to resist vs China who is candidate for world hegemon.

 

[SandisLL]

Looks like up to 9 Russian planes in total were damaged or destroyed at the Pskov airfield.

It's hilarious using 3500$ cardboard drones to destroy multi million dollar planes.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/01/cardboard-drones-eyed-in-strikes-on-russian-airfields/

Most awful stuff is that these had been launched from Russia.
This means that Ukraine does have tools to operate covert groups in Russian federation, to sneak in drones parts and assemble them and then launch.
Real beauty thanks to Gerasimov, Putin, Patrushev and Co.

 

[SandisLL]

DU ammunition had been widely produced in large scale for tanks 125 mm APFSDS " darts ".
It is dart designed for to defeat armour , fin stabilised and low caliber stuff held by sabbot package when fired.
Also in cummulative charges as liner for some models had been used ...liners from depleted uranium.
Gorbachev era.

 

[nhbfan8080]

I'm not sure this statement on the article is correct. If so, I don't think it applies to all Russian units in theater. The OGRT has been mentioned as rotating once every six months. I believe the rest are in it for the duration. I believe those one-year draft contracts are out the window during wartime. Similar to the US 'stop-loss' program during Iraq and Afghanistan when we (US) began to have a shortage of manpower in theater. We had no draft. The US Army and Marines began to give big bonuses for anyone from the Navy and Air Force to switch branches. Standards were lowered (like now) to help recruit people. There was a short period when officers were direct commissioned. No ROTC or OCS.

Russia still hasn't formally declared on war on Ukraine (neither has Ukraine on Russia) so Russia was forced to changed its laws to make refusing to fight etc a more serious offense, so they might have something like a stop-loss with the 'special operation'.

 

[San Marino]

Russia still hasn't formally declared on war on Ukraine (neither has Ukraine on Russia) so Russia was forced to changed its laws to make refusing to fight etc a more serious offense, so they might have something like a stop-loss with the 'special operation'.

That is a good point. The US never officially declared war on North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Last time was in 1942 against Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania - WWII.

 

[SandisLL]

Russia still hasn't formally declared on war on Ukraine (neither has Ukraine on Russia) so Russia was forced to changed its laws to make refusing to fight etc a more serious offense, so they might have something like a stop-loss with the 'special operation'.

In Russia and USSR even during peace time were harsh penalties if you will avoid mandatory conscritption.... real terms in prison.

 

[SandisLL]

Russia still hasn't formally declared on war on Ukraine (neither has Ukraine on Russia) so Russia was forced to changed its laws to make refusing to fight etc a more serious offense, so they might have something like a stop-loss with the 'special operation'.

Sure, because if they formally had declared war they had lost veto rights in chinesse puppet org called U.N ( it is China's puppet like WHO and Amnesty International ,).