International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V11

[Rholk]

I don't know if i've ever met someone that hated Navy SEALS as much as @San Marino , and I live in a place overflowing with anti-US military hippies

At this point i'd dare to say he got bullied by some SEALS.
Dude has issues

 

[San Marino]

I don't know if i've ever met someone that hated Navy SEALS as much as @San Marino , and I live in a place overflowing with anti-US military hippies.

I don't hate U.S. Navy SEALs. I don't like some of the things they have done in Iraq and Afghanistan. Plenty of good SEALs out there. I have worked with two of them. Plenty of bad soldiers out there too. SEALs only became popular after the Bin Laden raid which was originally an Army Special Forces (Delta) mission. Interservice rivalry. Plus, they did kill a SF soldier in Africa (2017) who was going to report them over money they were stealing from the US government.
World's best military swimmers? Don't know.

 

[Limbo Pete]

I don't hate U.S. Navy SEALs.

I'll take "Yeah Fuckin Right, LOL" for $500, Alex

 

[aries]

From the little information that we do have, i can't say i have a major issue with this.
He spread information that he knew was classified online to impress his online extreme-right buddies.
This will very likely end up causing deaths, directly or indirectly.

I don't have any sympathy for him but I'm very suspicious that a 21 year would have that sort of access to such classified information unless by design. The world's greatest military and intelligence services but they display this level of ineptitude and poor judgement? I find it hard to believe.

But I don't really see any more dying apart from if Ukraine aren't given more anti-air defence inventory. Unless I'm missing something else from what's been revealed?

No definitive battle plans, embarrassing Serbia, South Korea and shaming Egypt. Doesn't seem too bad. Admission of higher than reported losses on the Ukrainian side but also the Russian side. Which is pretty much in line with what most people who have closely followed this conflict suspected. Seems pretty tame compared to what could have been revealed.

 

[aries]

You would be surprised at how many idiots hold a TOP SECRET security clearance in the US military.

Maybe, but that really needs to be fixed if it's true. What's the point in having this amazing intelligence gathering apparatus if some 21 year old racist can just share it with his cyber buddies on discord for likes?

 

[aries]

No.
Being shot or blown up in combat inspires the same fear.

We are accustomed to that sort of thing though in movies and tv shows. Watching someone get a sledgehammer to their skull is the stuff of horror movies. Which as I'm sure you know is why the mexican cartels mutilate their victims and leave their bodies in public. It's terrorism designed to instill fear in their target audience.

 

[San Marino]

Maybe, but that really needs to be fixed if it's true. What's the point in having this amazing intelligence gathering apparatus if some 21 year old racist can just share it with his cyber buddies on discord for likes?

Fix it how? It is very easy to walk away with classified material. Happens all the time. Not talking about Trump, Biden, or Hilary Clinton either.
You can copy it, photograph it, or put it in a floppy disk. There are no USB ports in a classified computer, but they do have floppy disk slots. Not sure how things are today, but back in 2008 we were still doing classified and unclassified briefs with floppy disks at USSOUTHCOM. The disk would stay with the file. Lots of PowerPoint presentations. ...and I mean a lot.

 

[Rholk]

I don't have any sympathy for him but I'm very suspicious that a 21 year would have that sort of access to such classified information unless by design. The world's greatest military and intelligence services but they display this level of ineptitude and poor judgement? I find it hard to believe.

But I don't really see any more dying apart from if Ukraine aren't given more anti-air defence inventory. Unless I'm missing something else from what's been revealed?

No definitive battle plans, embarrassing Serbia, South Korea and shaming Egypt. Doesn't seem too bad. Admission of higher than reported losses on the Ukrainian side but also the Russian side. Which is pretty much in line with what most people who have closely followed this conflict suspected. Seems pretty tame compared to what could have been revealed.

I certainly wouldn't exclude it.
But people also put a bit to much weight on the fact that people shouldn't have access.
Just because people shouldn't have access to info, doesn't mean they actually don't.
Procedures can be watertight on paper, if people don't follow those procedures to the letter it's of little use.
For all we know the 21 year old was some secretary that had little clearence, that was supposed to store/destroy documents under the supervision of some higher ranking officer.
All it takes is a bit of negligence/laziness on part on the officer that causes him to not check/supervise properly, and your security protocol is worth fuck all

 

[aries]

I certainly wouldn't exclude it.
But people also put a bit to much weight on the fact that people shouldn't have access.
Just because people shouldn't have access to info, doesn't mean they actually don't.
Procedures can be watertight on paper, if people don't follow those procedures to the letter it's of little use.
For all we know the 21 year old was some secretary that had little clearence, that was supposed to store/destroy documents under the supervision of some higher ranking officer.
All it takes is a bit of negligence/laziness on part on the officer that causes him to not check/supervise properly, and your security protocol is worth fuck all

Maybe, just seems a bit crazy. I was 21 once but now looking back I shouldn't have been anywhere near such information at that time of my life. I guess we'll see what comes out in the investigation. Will be interesting to hear if the 'official' version makes any sense.

Anecdotally my brother currently works in IT for a Ministry of Defence department. Nothing as high level as this air cadet got access too but he's not allowed to work remotely anymore (has been in remote work for over a decade) and they are not allowed phones in the offices or access to printers. So how on earth was this air cadet getting the top secret intel out? Either the US military intelligence services are very badly run or .....

 

[PEB]

It seems the Brics crew is trying to cut in on the peace talks with Brazil, China and possibly India leading the way. Seems like they want to get what they can out of Ukraine and cut out Western nations. They likely feel the time is ripe to butt into these talks and specifically cut US out of it. Go figure and I hope Ukrainian President does not fall into this trap. There is likely other nations but Brazilians new President already sided with China over Chinese currency and had discussions with Xi over taking over peace talks no seriously. Lula bell keeps blaming US for encouraging the war what the F? Tell Russia troll.

"Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said on Saturday that the United States should stop “encouraging” the war in Ukraine.

“The United States needs to stop encouraging war and start talking about peace; the European Union needs to start talking about peace so that we can convince Putin and Zelensky that peace is in the interest of everyone and that war is only interesting, for now, to the two of them,” Lula told reporters in Beijing."

Lula also revealed that during his talks with Chinese leader Xi Jinping they discussed forming a group of like-minded leaders on Ukraine.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/15/world/brazil-president-ukraine-war-intl/index.html

 

[7even]

I don't hate U.S. Navy SEALs. I don't like some of the things they have done in Iraq and Afghanistan. Plenty of good SEALs out there. I have worked with two of them. Plenty of bad soldiers out there too. SEALs only became popular after the Bin Laden raid which was originally an Army Special Forces (Delta) mission. Interservice rivalry. Plus, they did kill a SF soldier in Africa (2017) who was going to report them over money they were stealing from the US government.
World's best military swimmers? Don't know.

You mention before that Devgru got the job for the Bin Ladin raid because Delta Force was in deployment. That doesn’t make sence. Devgru has 4 squadrons, and they all don’t deploy at the same time. Doesn’t Delta Force has 4 squadrons?


Oh by the way, there are heavy rumors that Devgru didn’t use snipers to Save Captain Phillips. The rumor is that they used 2 SEAL Delivery Vehicles that emerged out of the water from both sides of the lifeboat while operators killed the pirates from of top of those mini subs. Assuming they had a special ladder that extended out of them. Maybe it was just one SDV and they entered through the back of the life boat. Can you use your TOP SECRET clearance to find that out?

 

[Terry Noonan]

Navy seals have always been held in high regard… before bin laden raid. No idea where you grew up but..

 

[Cid]

So the leak worked! That kid is a hero, I hope he gets released in 10 years halfway through his sentence.

I doubt this was hastily put together within the time period of the story gaining traction. Half a million shells is a lot of shells, deliberated on for months and coincidental timing seems much more likely IMO.

Either way good news for Ukraine.

 

[Strychnine]

Good video. Dry, not flashy.

This is an AMAZING video. There's a ton of great information presented. Well worth a watch.^

 

[Ruthless Ryan]

This is an AMAZING video. There's a ton of great information presented. Well worth a watch.^

That's why the counter offensive will be so hard. Russians are not suppose to take a step back or they will be shot by their own commanders...It will be a bloodbath.

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[Darkballs]

I don't have any sympathy for him but I'm very suspicious that a 21 year would have that sort of access to such classified information unless by design.

I had a higher clearance than this kid did and at a younger age of 18.

Getting a TS or above clearance, at least for me, involved a really thorough background check by the FBI. But pretty much so long as you don't have a criminal record, significant debt, or a history of certain medications or psychiatric issues, you'll get the clearance.

The thing is, most people that get TS+ clearances aren't necessarily privy to juicy information. For myself, the purpose of my clearance was pretty much for just the gear I was working with. Essentially, they wanted the capabilities of our newest radios and signals intercept gear to remain secret. Granted, if you work in a SCIF, you'll have access to a lot of general message traffic. So you can always do stupid shit like copy stuff an pass it along. However, everyone with a brain cell understood that any leaks would bring down a shitstorm of an investigation. And with material that controlled, you'll almost certainly be caught.

Hell, this kid used his own phone to take pictures of documents, and then uploaded them to his discord account which had his home address. So not the brightest bulb.

 

[San Marino]

You mention before that Devgru got the job for the Bin Ladin raid because Delta Force was in deployment.

Everyone was in a deployment at one time or another. U.S. Navy SEALs and U.S. Army Special Forces (Delta). Very little time stateside before the next deployment. Guys got burnout out of this relatively fast. It affected their performance. There is really nothing special about the Bin Laden raid. With enough practice, training and discipline, a regular Army Infantry Platoon could have done the job. Marines could have done it. the 75th Ranger Regiment could have done it. As always, interservice rivalry and politics come into play.

. DEVGRU as you call it (Development Group), or better known as SEAL Team 6, is the elite SEAL Team in the SEAL community.
. Delta (1st SFOD-D) is the elite Special Forces Operational Detachment in the U.S. Army.

That doesn’t make sence. Devgru has 4 squadrons, and they all don’t deploy at the same time. Doesn’t Delta Force has 4 squadrons?

SEAL Team 6 has 6 Squadrons: 4 assault, 1 intel, and 1 mobility.

On the U.S. Navy side of the house. A SEAL Team is commanded by a Navy Commander (O-5) and is composed of a HQ element and 8 operational 16-man SEAL Platoons. These Platoons rotate in a continuous and rigorous planned cycle of training and overseas deployments. Platoons can be structured to operate as 8-man Squads, 4-man Fire Teams, or 2-man Sniper/Reconnaissance Teams, as required.

A SEAL Platoon is normally commanded by a Navy Lieutenant (O- 3). A Platoon consists of 16 SEALs and may divide into 2 squads or 4 elements. A SEAL Platoon is the largest operational element normally used to conduct a tactical mission. More often, SEALs operate as 8-man Squads or 4-man Fire Teams.

On the U.S. Army side of the house. An Operational Detachment Team is the heart and soul of Special Forces. That is 12 highly trained soldiers -- primarily 10 non-commissioned officers, 1 warrant officer and 1 Captain. A few formations in Delta - primarily the following operational squadrons:

• A Squadron (Assault)
• B Squadron (Assault)
• C Squadron (Assault)
• D Squadron (Assault)
• E Squadron (Aviation)
• G Squadron (Advanced Force Operations)
• Combat Support Squadron
• Signal Squadron

Within each Squadron there are 3 troops: 2 assault troops for direct action, and 1 reconnaissance and surveillance troop. Each Squadron is commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel (O-5) and troops are led by Majors (O-4). Each troop has 4 teams, each one led by a team leader, a Master Sergeant (E-8) or Sergeant First Class (E-7), and an Assistant Team Leader who can also have the same rank. Each team can have as many as 12, or as few as 1 or 2 operators.

* SEALs usually operate in 16 men teams, and SF (Delta) operates in 12 men teams. Once you are down to 5 men, you are really combat ineffective. 1 lone SEAL, or Green Beret, is as good as 1 lone highly motivated and trained Infantry soldier, Marine, or Ranger. The power and effect comes from the team working as a unit. Once captured (Marcus Luttrell), you are just as scared as a lone captured Army Private (Bowe Bergdahl). All that fancy training goes out the window.

 

[Omni1]