International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V10

[SandisLL]

Israel have far more in common with Russian in this situation than Ukraine so no surprise they might urge Ukraine to consider accepting such shitty terms.

Sure, actually countries like Israel and Switzerland more might prefer to see Ukraine calm down and live under Russia.
ALL ukraine btw too for them might be acceptable....
For countries like Germany isn't geo politically acceptable IF Russia will control ALL Ukraine, however situation if Russia takes part of Ukraine and part will remain as buffer country might look beautiful solution.

Ukr politicians should be more realistic about REAL geopolitical and ecomomical, financial things and stop to dream...illusions...
Btw even Poland will not care who will control Kherson, Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk and Zaporozia oblastj. Not at all. Never will in reality care....
All they care about is not to get more land border with Russia and not to allow Ukr completely get 404 cos then they will have xx xxx xxx refugees and 0 border control on Ukr side, later this might be land border with Russia etc...

 

[aries]

The front lines have devolved into WW1 style trench warfare. The Ukrainians can't really counterattack because they don't have the equipment to do so yet. So the only choice is to hold on in this attritional warfare until they get enough mechanized hardware to do a big counter offensive.

The people advocating for "peace" by allowing Russia to just keep the land they've taken are straight retarded.

I can't wait for the Ukrainians to get the big tanks. Those Russians will be like sitting ducks in their trenches and I wouldn't want to be a Russian in a T72. Abrams had a 50:1 kill ratio against Iraqi T72's in the Gulf War.

 

[aries]

Sure, actually countries like Israel and Switzerland more might prefer to see Ukraine calm down and live under Russia.
ALL ukraine btw too for them might be acceptable....
For countries like Germany isn't geo politically acceptable IF Russia will control ALL Ukraine, however situation if Russia takes part of Ukraine and part will remain as buffer country might look beautiful solution.

Ukr politicians should be more realistic about REAL geopolitical and ecomomical, financial things and stop to dream...illusions...
Btw even Poland will not care who will control Kherson, Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk and Zaporozia oblastj. Not at all. Never will in reality care....
All they care about is not to get more land border with Russia and not to allow Ukr completely get 404 cos then they will have xx xxx xxx refugees and 0 border control on Ukr side, later this might be land border with Russia etc...

Ukraine are milking the good will as much as they can. Luckily for them they are using the western tech they've been given so far very effectively. They know when the support starts to tail off they will have to live with whatever position they are left in on the board. I'm sure they dream of getting some fighter jets. They've given up on NATO enforcing a no fly zone.

 

[SandisLL]

Iraq had mainly 1974 th era export versions. Ammo, sights, armour...
The same T72 1988 th version too will have 50:1 ratio vs these Iraq tanks from Gulf War I.
Ammo too is from different era ....

The same APFSDS from 1974 th ....
If compare with late 1970 ies and early 1980 ies, late 1980 ies models...
Shaped charge ammo: the same aporox...

This for this T-72 tank...

 

[Rholk]

Can somebody explain why Israel finds it so important to remain on good terms with Russia? Russia backs Syria & Iran and yet the Israeli's have looked for every opportunity to avoid upsetting Russia. I am not aware of any huge resource dependence, they go against Israeli interest, at least on a surface level, I don't get it.

Israel is always going to so whats best for Israel. I dont think they have much to gain from picking a side here.
And altho Iran is an ally of Russia, Russia has a bit of a weird relationship regarding Israel. They haven't supplied stuff like the S400 to Iran, nor do they interfere when Israeli war planes bomb their allies in Syria.

 

[aries]

Elon the Russian troll... How dare him feeling sorry for fake numbers and to reply for something not ukranian media-aproved

Why do I get the feeling Elon would suggest that Ukraine just roll over and die? Even if those numbers are correct, Russia's easily matches them. And no one is going to help Russia rebuild after this is over, unless Saint Elon is offering to rebuild Russia out of his own pocket? Maybe someone should remind him that if Russia hadn't of invaded it's peaceful neighbour there would be no 'tragic loss of life' on either side.

 

[aries]

when i want to understand war i also consult the local nonce..

And this piece of shit didn't just do it once but got caught twice, 8 years apart!

 

[SandisLL]

About these T-72 tanks.
Their protection depends from their sub model...
Early T-72 ies from beginning of 1974 th had...mhmm...
And ammo too.
To deNazify these Iraq mainly had ....with M60A3 with 1988-1991 era upgrade and ammo had been enough...

Later russians multiple times improved armour, created new and again new shells models etc...
Even optics had been improved etc...

T-72 from 1974 th isn't much more capable than T-62 from 1960 ies....
T-72 from 1980 ies is .....different leaque.
Especially ammunition...

 

[Hog-train]

I can't wait for the Ukrainians to get the big tanks. Those Russians will be like sitting ducks in their trenches and I wouldn't want to be a Russian in a T72. Abrams had a 50:1 kill ratio against Iraqi T72's in the Gulf War.

All the modern tanks coming are overrated IMO because it's not in large enough numbers to really turn the tide. The vast majority of the Ukrainians tanks will still be Soviet style. And even the modern tanks are toast if they don't use good logistics. Anti-tank weapons are super effective.

Much more impactful will be modern logistics and modern missiles and how effectively the Ukrainians use Western warfare techniques together. How fast they've learned from their training. That will be all the difference in the world and we're going to see soon how this will play out. Modern logistics vs superior numbers.

 

[aries]

Can somebody explain why Israel finds it so important to remain on good terms with Russia? Russia backs Syria & Iran and yet the Israeli's have looked for every opportunity to avoid upsetting Russia. I am not aware of any huge resource dependence, they go against Israeli interest, at least on a surface level, I don't get it.

Putin had a soft spot for Israel and he's developed good relations with them since his first presidency. He's said stuff like he considers Israel a Russian speaking country as nearly 1.5 million Israelis speak Russian. A lot Russian based Jewish people relocated to Israel after the fall of the Soviet Union. They played nicely in Syria, coordinating their actions to avoid any military clashes. When Russia annexed Crimea, Israel stayed neutral. Both Israel and Russia liked Trump. They have many things in common and a historical connection.

Putin himself has been accused of being pro-jewish on a personal level (by Russian nationalists). His adored wrestling coach was of Jewish heritage and many of his rich oligarch friends have Jewish ancestry too.

 

[Orgasmo]

Can somebody explain why Israel finds it so important to remain on good terms with Russia? Russia backs Syria & Iran and yet the Israeli's have looked for every opportunity to avoid upsetting Russia. I am not aware of any huge resource dependence, they go against Israeli interest, at least on a surface level, I don't get it.

Lots of Russian Jews in Israel who share cultural affinity and political sympathy with Russia. On top of that, Israel is keen to maintain a balancing act in geopolitics even if it's a US ally. It has decent relationships with both Russia and China. From their perspective, it's better to have two partners than two powerful enemies.

 

[Cid]

Alright back to military stuff.

I think Ukraine utilized the wrong defensive strategy in the past few months. Instead utilizing flexible defense counterattacking when Russians are overextended, they held on to areas that are difficult to supply and defend. The Bakhmut/Soledar/Siversk lines should have been pulled back 2 months ago. Some people argue that they're bleeding the Russians by holding on stubbornly, but the opposite is also true. The combat experienced mechanized brigades are losing men and equipment in these siege battles which Russia is better equipped for. Russians have more artillery, armor and manpower for the meat grinder. Ukraine has proven to be able to execute complicated field maneuvers that can punch through Russian lines (i.e. Kharkiv) but instead chose a slugfest.

It's a repeat of May/June all over again.

Mechanized brigades have a much heavier role in advancing than defending and suffer substantially greater losses on offensives than defending. Just because Ukraine was able to pull off a large offense in Kharkiv doesn't mean they should be doing that now, Kharkiv offensive was successful because they had the conditions for it. The Russians were already heavily outnumbered in Ukraine and further weakened their lines by concentrating their forces around Kherson in the lead up to the Kharkiv offensive.

That's not the case anymore. Ukraine is not going to be enjoying the 4-1 advantage they enjoyed in Kharkiv so you can't expect them to employ those same tactics. Complicated maneuvers will result in higher rates of lost equipment than static fighting.


May/June was a very different time in regards to the balance of artillery power on the battlefield. HIMARS arrived with only a few days left in June and Western SPGs were less than 1/5th of the numbers they have now. The lack of ammo dump explosions means Russia has moved storage further back and while Russia still enjoys an ammunition and gun advantage you can't look to shell expenditure as a reliable indicator as they're not like systems.

 

[aries]

All the modern tanks coming are overrated IMO because it's not in large enough numbers to really turn the tide. The vast majority of the Ukrainians tanks will still be Soviet style. And even the modern tanks are toast if they don't use good logistics. Anti-tank weapons are super effective.

Much more impactful will be modern logistics and modern missiles and how effectively the Ukrainians use Western warfare techniques together. How fast they've learned from their training. That will be all the difference in the world and we're going to see soon how this will play out. Modern logistics vs superior numbers.

The tanks aren't overrated but yes I agree the actual effect they will have will be limited because there just aren't enough of them. But with 50:1 kill ratios, that's for the Abrams vs. T72, I have no doubt it will be similar for the Challenger 2's and Leopards, who all have much superior armour, much better survivability, far longer range and infinitely better targeting systems. The problem is that the Ukrainians will need to sort out their logistics, both for resupply of ammunition, fuel and maintenance of 3 different tank systems and they have to be trained to do all those things on each tank. And the M1's are predicted to not even arrive until the end of this year.

And yes the Russian anti-tank weapon the Kornet is superior to the Javelin (double the range) and well capable of taking out any NATO MBT but we have seen very little evidence of their use (or even existence) in Ukraine against Ukrainian armour? Why's that? because like a lot of Russian military supertech, like the amazing T14, they just don't really exist in enough numbers to even care about. The biggest threat to NATO tanks is the humble anti-tank mine, the T72 is no match for any NATO tanks and the Russians don't seem to have any good anti-weapons in circulation to even matter.

 

[Cole train]

Related to ukr drafting people in earlier post i posted

Might be mistake in files or other reason or straight up real

 

[The XL]

Conscription is one of the biggest human rights violations in the history of humanity. The fact that it's still happening is beyond barbaric. People forced to kill and die, and for what? Who gives anyone the right to play God? The masses are still slaves and glorified cattle for the elites to do as they please. Nothing has really changed.

 

[Terry Noonan]

Conscription is one of the biggest human rights violations in the history of humanity. The fact that it's still happening is beyond barbaric. People forced to kill and die, and for what? Who gives anyone the right to play God? The masses are still slaves and glorified cattle for the elites to do as they please. Nothing has really changed.

You’re sadly not wrong. Russians clearly are doing it. They just conscript old and young and send them to their deaths.

 

[The XL]

You’re sadly not wrong. Russians clearly are doing it. They just conscript old and young and send them to their deaths.

The Russians absolutely are, but Ukrainians are as well. I understand it's different because they're defending and not invading, but it's still deplorable. Let's call conscription for what it is, murder, torture, kidnapping. People being forced to kill other people that they otherwise would have no problem with at the whims of the elites. It's crazy to me that this is still happening in 2023. How do the people of Ukraine and especially Russia tolerate this?

 

[Hog-train]

And yes the Russian anti-tank weapon the Kornet is superior to the Javelin (double the range) and well capable of taking out any NATO MBT but we have seen very little evidence of their use (or even existence) in Ukraine against Ukrainian armour? Why's that? because like a lot of Russian military supertech, like the amazing T14, they just don't really exist in enough numbers to even care about. The biggest threat to NATO tanks is the humble anti-tank mine, the T72 is no match for any NATO tanks and the Russians don't seem to have any good anti-weapons in circulation to even matter.

I would argue there weren't as many Ukrainian tank losses because they weren't the ones doing offensive actions. It's much easier to use tanks in defense. The vast majority of the Russian tank losses have been in the beginning - when they did a massive offensive assault. They didn't properly support them with good logistics, tactics, IFV's and infantry support.

The danger to the Ukrainians tanks will be when they do their counter-offensive to regain land.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Vladimir Putin's Soldiers Starving In Ukraine, Surviving On Only 'Instant Noodles' & Potatoes Cooked On 'Rockets'

"Vladimir Putin’s forces are starving in Ukraine and are forced to survive on only potatoes, onions and instant noodles cooked using the back ends of rockets, RadarOnline.com has learned.

In a surprising development to come as Russia’s death toll recently surpassed 500,000, one Russian soldier spoke out to reveal the Russian military’s food situation has not changed even 12 months after first invading Ukraine in February 2022.

Even more shocking was recently released footage of a Russian battlefield kitchen that indicated Putin’s soldiers are struggling to survive as their options for food and nutrients are severely limited.

That is the revelation shared by one Russian soldier named Sedoy who recently spoke to the pro-Kremlin news outlet Moskovskij Komsomolets to speak openly about the poor food conditions he and his fellow soldiers suffer in Ukraine, according to Daily Star."

Vladimir Putin's Soldiers Starving In Ukraine, Surviving On Only 'Instant Noodles' & Potatoes Cooked On 'Rockets' (msn.com)

This came up in my newsfeed. I can't verify that it's 100% gospel, but it's very telling if true.

Quick, best send a few million more men to easily survive of soil and burned plants.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Conscription is one of the biggest human rights violations in the history of humanity. The fact that it's still happening is beyond barbaric. People forced to kill and die, and for what? Who gives anyone the right to play God? The masses are still slaves and glorified cattle for the elites to do as they please. Nothing has really changed.

For Ukrainians, what is the alternative?

I genuinely don't understand this mentality.