Russia the most important country in defeating the Nazis in WW2?

[TheNinja]

Germany chose to declare war on the U.S. Japan didn't drag the U.S. into Europe. Blame moronic German leadership, a common theme through the war.

Bro are you OK? One, Germany declared war on the U.S., two, even if that wasn't the case, is backstabbing Nazis such a bad thing to do?

Again, do people not understand what actually happened and what a nonaggression pact is?

You seem to not be familiar with Germany before WWII. They were never a first world country and their living standards always lagged behind. That had nothing to do with WWI, unless you mean that German conservatives constantly blew money on the military.

I actually don't know the whole reason why Japan attacked US. I know it was preemptive b/c they either feared the US would attack first or they feared the US would block/prevent their war efforts throughout the Pacific theater. But not sure why they chose to attack the US first.

 

[avenue94]

I actually don't know the whole reason why Japan attacked US. I know it was preemptive b/c they either feared the US would attack first or they feared the US would block/prevent their war efforts throughout the Pacific theater. But not sure why they chose to attack the US first.

Japan attacked the U.S. because they felt it was economically necessary at that point and by 1941 the only real opposition left in the Pacific was the U.S. Germany didn't have to declare war, they chose to do it.

 

[ralphc1]

Why did the US embargo Japan again........

Because Japan invaded French territories in Indochina at the same time that Germany was invading France and the US was supplying arms to France and Britain. Japan was already at war with China which was involved in internal conflict. The US was somewhat involved in the Japan/China conflict with the Flying Tigers "Volunteer" group in early 1941.

World War II was pretty much a continuation of the unresolved issues in WWI which was a continuation of bickering about boundaries that had gone on for hundreds of years.

 

[Rjay]

Read it was Hitlers worst mistake invading Russia tactically .Read a good book called the forgotten soldier a German soldiers biography who got sent to the Eastern front . The Germans fighting the Russians iin this book was like something out the zulu film Ivans the zulus heavily outnumbered them .
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Forgotten-...s=the+forgotten+soldier&qid=1608142556&sr=8-1

A mistake it may have been in hindsight, but it made complete sense at the time, even aside from Hitler's long-term ideological goal of Eastern expansion to create "living room".

After losing the Battle of Britain the war in the west was a stalemate, which left Germany's ground forces most uncommitted. There was a high degree of mistrust between ideological enemies Stalin and Hitler, so neither side believed their alliance to be stable. There was strong economic imperatives for Germany to expand the war. The German war machine was built on debt and financial sleights-of-hand which could not be sustained indefinitely. The needed the oil fields of the Caucus and Western Russia resources to obtain the commodities they couldn't purchase and to shore up their perpetual balance-of-payments crises.

Lastly, Russia looked like an easy mark. The popular belief in the Western World was that once you kick in Russia's front door, the whole rotten edifice would come crashing down. Not a bad theory given the state of the Stalin's USSR and Russia's capitulation in 1917.

 

[ralphc1]

I actually don't know the whole reason why Japan attacked US. I know it was preemptive b/c they either feared the US would attack first or they feared the US would block/prevent their war efforts throughout the Pacific theater. But not sure why they chose to attack the US first.

The British and French navies were occupied with the war in Europe. The only naval force strong enough to counter the Japanese navy was the US navy. The US had stopped supplying Japan with oil and was supplying the Chinese with war materials. The Japanese recognized the importance of aircraft carriers while the US navy brass were still clinging to battleships as the most important ships in the Navy. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was intended to destroy the few carriers that the US had but the carriers were not in the harbor as they were at sea to ferry planes to Wake Island and Midway Island. The Enterprise was supposed to be back in the harbor but was delayed by weather. Since the carriers were at sea, the compliment of ships that accompanied them were also out of the harbor, saving the US from a complete disaster.

Roosevelt had been trying to get the US to enter the war against Germany but the anti-war sentiment was strong in the US. When the Japanese attacked, it was easy to get an immediate declaration of war on Japan but not Germany but Germany declared war on the US a couple of days later, possibly as part of a collaboration with the Japanese.

Once Germany surrendered in May of 1945, Russia was supposed to join the war against Japan. They didn't join in until two days after the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

Patton wanted to invade Russia because he knew Stalin couldn't be trusted and the US had the upper hand with the atomic bomb. Would the US have gotten bogged down in Russia or would the successive wars been avoided? Germany and Japan prospered under allied occupation.

 

[CaptHANDSUP]

Yes, and anyone who says otherwise is an imbecile.

 

[zapataxiv]

I watched one WW2 video on Youtube and it had started recommending me non-stop WW2 videos. Apparently, 4 out of every 5 German soldiers in WW2 were fighting in Russia. The remaining few that weren't were left fighting the US, Britain and everyone else. I've learned that D-Day was absolutely nothing compared to what was happening in Russia, which we never learn anything about in our education system.

Are you insinuating you are american? You are about as american as a chinese cartoon.

 

[zapataxiv]

Hitler was funded by and defeated by the "banksters".

USSR, USA, UK were but the pawns.

You take out enough of their tellers and the big boys will cast their cold alien serpentine gaze upon you!

 

[Thrawn33]

The British and French navies were occupied with the war in Europe. The only naval force strong enough to counter the Japanese navy was the US navy. The US had stopped supplying Japan with oil and was supplying the Chinese with war materials. The Japanese recognized the importance of aircraft carriers while the US navy brass were still clinging to battleships as the most important ships in the Navy. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was intended to destroy the few carriers that the US had but the carriers were not in the harbor as they were at sea to ferry planes to Wake Island and Midway Island. The Enterprise was supposed to be back in the harbor but was delayed by weather. Since the carriers were at sea, the compliment of ships that accompanied them were also out of the harbor, saving the US from a complete disaster.

Roosevelt had been trying to get the US to enter the war against Germany but the anti-war sentiment was strong in the US. When the Japanese attacked, it was easy to get an immediate declaration of war on Japan but not Germany but Germany declared war on the US a couple of days later, possibly as part of a collaboration with the Japanese.

Once Germany surrendered in May of 1945, Russia was supposed to join the war against Japan. They didn't join in until two days after the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

Patton wanted to invade Russia because he knew Stalin couldn't be trusted and the US had the upper hand with the atomic bomb. Would the US have gotten bogged down in Russia or would the successive wars been avoided? Germany and Japan prospered under allied occupation.

If the US and Soviets were to go to war immediately following victory over Germany, Nukes would've been needed for an American victory.

 

[Rjay]

Anything you read or see is pretty biased one way or the other.

The US/UK supplied enormous amounts of equipment to Russia via lend-lease.

Allied bombing and air superiority over Europe.

Of course Russia poured masses of men into the fight and opened up a huge front against Germany and that's why the majority of Germany's faced Russia but without the Allies supplying 450'000 trucks your troops are marching on foot and that's only a small section of the equipment supplied.........then you had the second front opened up in the West via D-day, Germany was screwed.

But if you think Russia could have won it if the Allies had not supplied shit tons of equipment, gained air superiority over Europe and bombed the crap out of Germany's factories then I'm not as sure.

Strategic blunders and the weather saved Russia during the German invasion.

If Japan had a better army and had invaded Siberia as planned and didn't drag the US into a direct war, maybe things would have turned out different.

Ultimately the Allies and Russia won the war........they needed each other.

Everyone overlooks the strategic bombing campaign. Anyone really interested in WWII history should read "Wages of Destruction" by Adam Tooze

Alot of historians thought the bombing campaign didn't achieve much, but his books makes a very convincing case that it destroyed Hitler's ability to wage war.

My guy feeling is he's right. When you read about Luftwaffe planes or Wehrmacht tank development you always see the same patterns, "the prototype was destroyed in an allied air raid, leading to the project cancellation", or "the factory was destroyed in an allied air raid, leading to production delays". Tough to fight a war when almost everything above ground is getting destroyed, and you spend half you time moving what is left underground. Then when the allies switched to the railway marshalling yards in 1945, the whole country's transport was bought to a standstill. They'd have lost to the Soviets anyway, but it sure made things much, much, much worse for the Nazis.

 

[TheNinja]

Japan attacked the U.S. because they felt it was economically necessary at that point and by 1941 the only real opposition left in the Pacific was the U.S. Germany didn't have to declare war, they chose to do it.

But why did they think it was economically necessary? Their war machine was costing too much money?

 

[William Huggins]

But why did they think it was economically necessary? Their war machine was costing too much money?

It wasn't just economics, Japan was super pissed at the US for blunting their war machines ability to continue its invasion into China.

 

[avenue94]

But why did they think it was economically necessary? Their war machine was costing too much money?

Combinations of oil sanctions from the U.S. (Japan itself has next to zero, if not zero oil reserves) and the bigger goal of a Japanese Empire in Asia or at least a European/U.S. influence-free zone. Add in on top of the U.S. was already rearming, if you're in Japan and itching for a fight, it's pretty obvious to you that the sooner the war, the better for you.

And yes, Japanese rearmament was incredibly expensive in absolute and relative terms. As an example, a single Yamato class battleship was 3/4 of a percent of entire GDP. And that's just construction costs.

 

[Oceanmachine]

Real question is who will win ww3

Russia.

US and China sit by and destroy each other. Russia and her allies play neutral

 

[Oceanmachine]

The whole "The Russian Winter defeated the Wermarch" is just a myth. The winter didn't kill the Germans. The Red Army did.

Timestamped.


As for the "US Lend-Lease Enabled the Soviets to Win" argument -- professional historians are heavily divided on this topic. Some say it was super-important, others fairly little. When you start crunching numbers and analyzing the situation it gets extremely difficult to tell because there are an ungodly many factors to consider and evaluate. Again, professional historians are heavily divided on this subject and can't reach a consensus so there is very little to say on the subject unless you fancy joining academia and researching the subject yourself. [This point is also covered in the video at point nr 7]

Na its a combo that is well established. There have been countless books on how unprepared the Germans were. And I read one on an account of the cold conditions.

 

[empsim]

USA and it's not even close.

Several countries have more than enough firepower to nuke the whole damn planet.

Nobody will win WW3.

 

[fungi]

You take out enough of their tellers and the big boys will cast their cold alien serpentine gaze upon you!

As long as there is an anal probe involved.

 

[LHWBelt]

I watched one WW2 video on Youtube and it had started recommending me non-stop WW2 videos. Apparently, 4 out of every 5 German soldiers in WW2 were fighting in Russia. The remaining few that weren't were left fighting the US, Britain and everyone else. I've learned that D-Day was absolutely nothing compared to what was happening in Russia, which we never learn anything about in our education system.

To me? Yeah. Them or the Americans for spanking Japan.

 

[LHWBelt]

Real question is who will win ww3

The US is an odds on favorite. They're also the odds on favorite to start it this time.

 

[ralphc1]

Everyone overlooks the strategic bombing campaign. Anyone really interested in WWII history should read "Wages of Destruction" by Adam Tooze

Alot of historians thought the bombing campaign didn't achieve much, but his books makes a very convincing case that it destroyed Hitler's ability to wage war.

My guy feeling is he's right. When you read about Luftwaffe planes or Wehrmacht tank development you always see the same patterns, "the prototype was destroyed in an allied air raid, leading to the project cancellation", or "the factory was destroyed in an allied air raid, leading to production delays". Tough to fight a war when almost everything above ground is getting destroyed, and you spend half you time moving what is left underground. Then when the allies switched to the railway marshalling yards in 1945, the whole country's transport was bought to a standstill. They'd have lost to the Soviets anyway, but it sure made things much, much, much worse for the Nazis.

There is no doubt that the development of long distance bombers did more to end the war than almost anything else. They didn't have to find all of the locations where things were being built. They only had to destroy the ability to make things essential to the war effort, like ball bearing factories and railway transportation.

The Germans didn't develop long range heavy bombers as their air war was developed around supporting a ground invasion. It seems that some of the German military wanted long range bombers but choices had to be made as to where to use Germany's limited resources. Large transport planes could have been used to supply German troops. Heavy bombers could have bombed Leningrad into submission.

Two much colder than normal winters also hindered the German siege of Leningrad and invasion of Russia. The cold temperatures allowed the Russians to bring supplies into Leningrad over the ice. The higher than normal snowfall turned the ground to mud in the spring and much of the summer.

Russia's lack of good roads also hindered the Germans and the railroads were easily sabotaged.