Law russell brand allegations

[Unknown Pleasures]

It goes for most " media " mate. Yes I think the times has and will again run stories that will end up as defamation. It's not the first and it won't be the last. I don't particularly care whether or not brand is a weirdo. He certainly could be guilty.

Yes my claim is that the times and other media has run stories that could end up in a lawsuit. No I'm not a journalist, nor a lawyer. I'm not throwing away innocent untill proven guilty based apon " news ". I'm especially not expecting media companies to tell the truth based apon on a fear of legal ramifications.

See dominion lawsuits See rittenhouse see covington. See Jessie smolette , see covid, see Ukraine etc etc etc etc.

Sorry I can't trust em. Especially intwined and instructed by political institutions

I'm forced to like this thread. If I had to guess, Brand is guilty. But I still don't like to guess or put my eggs in the media basket with the average level of proof of sexual assault cases from ages ago. That guy that shot Mike Brown basically had to quit working and is in hiding with people still uttering death threats while the media still spins that story of "hands up don't shoot" to sate their target audience. It's a disgrace. That Gian Gomeshi guy had multiple accusers as well and that was proven false IIRC. I'm a huge fan of the Eric Bishoff Ted Talks of the modern media, it's been largely carved up into left/right (whereas wrestling was face/heel) and looks to cater to their targets by making them feel, not making them think.

That being said, I don't want to be misunderstood to think that I think everything in the media is garbage and all they do is lie, or if Brand is convicted it's a conspiracy or anything.

 

[Hog-train]

You're entitled to believe what you want. But notice how you didn't deny that you apparently hold rape or sexual assault allegations to much higher evidentiary burdens than any other crimes that are reported. Even though I'm willing to bet people lie and committed insurance fraud related to car accidents far more often than false rape allegations.

You're just making shit up now and going off on some weird tangent.

You also apparently can't name what evidence would meet your personal criteria. Again, that's fine, just don't pretend like you have some objective or evenhanded metrics that you apply equally to every criminal allegation that's reported on in the media.

I need more than just anonymous accusations. The minimum I would need is enough evidence to charge someone. We don't have any of that (yet) so why TF would I make some premature judgment of rape. F-ing ridiculous you are.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

This is all happening because of Russell Brand's political speech. If he isn't disruptive to the establishment, the TNI never targets him and he doesn't get demonetized.

Punishment before due process based on unproven allegations is about the most authoritarian thing I can imagine. I'm not surprised you support it.

I've kind of run out of things to say on this case, was more active in the thread earlier. I think in the final analysis, at the end of the day, advertisers play to the majority of the populace, which is kind of crappy too since the average person really doesn't have the outlook of letting people live til they get their day. It seems Rumble is trying to make a stand that under their free speech advocacy model they don't want to give in to external pressure and big companies are pressuring them now.

I find it weird, I don't really see much of a risk to youtube for continuing to pay Brand from a reputational standpoint. Folks seemed to disagree saying he is indeed a youtube brand ambassador equivalent to like Jordan for Nike etc. But I can't really get to that place. That's make hundreds and htousand of brand ambassadors to youtube. and weirder yet, those "brand ambassadors" are also usually active on every competing platform they can be. I don't see the association. Also, personally when I see a youtube commercial before a video, I assume it's just being played based on cookies or whatever youtube digs out of my browsing history. If I see a Burger King commercial before a video from anyone I don't assume it's Burger King endorsing the person/content of the video I'm watching etc.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

It looks bizzarely important for this @avenue94 guy for these women to have been raped. No jury no deliberation nothing.

Always be weary of shrill zealots like this. How about we wait for the law to look at this.

 

[avenue94]

You're just making shit up now and going off on some weird tangent.

It's not a weird tangent: You say you need to see hard evidence before concluding the allegations are credible. That's fine. But you can't describe what that hard evidence looks like. That's barely better than everyone in this thread convinced "oh the elites are out to get him" but can't describe who these elites are or what qualifies for that.

I need more than just anonymous accusations. The minimum I would need is enough evidence to charge someone. We don't have any of that (yet) so why TF would I make some premature judgment of rape. F-ing ridiculous you are.

Awfully high standard that I imagine you don't apply uniformly in your life, but more power to ya. I've never said anyone needs to make a premature judgment of rape. That's not even my opinion on the matter. You're also effectively imposing an impossible to reach standard given there would be no witnesses to this crime nor really any way to tell if the sex was consensual or not forensically.

It seems Rumble is trying to make a stand that under their free speech advocacy model they don't want to give in to external pressure and big companies are pressuring them now.

No company or social media platform is pro free speech. They just difference in the kinds of speech they like and don't like.

It looks bizzarely important for this @avenue94 guy for these women to have been raped. No jury no deliberation nothing.

Always be weary of shrill zealots like this. How about we wait for the law to look at this.

I see you too have also not read my multiple posts where I've been clear on the extent of my belief here being that the allegations are credible and if I had to bet I wouldn't bet he was squeaky clean on these matters given rather large breadth of allegations and the evidence we've been presented. I'm sorry that your favorite influencer of the month appears to be a shit bag and that his fans have to resort to absurd conspiracy theories to defend him.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

I'm sorry that your favorite influencer of the month appears to be a shit bag and that his fans have to resort to absurd conspiracy theories to defend him.

lol @ "favorite influencer". i haven't watched a single clip of his before this thing happening, and i've probably watched 2 since. seems like you need to imagine things to function. i imagine the essence of the rest of your posts also exist solely in your head. very credible poster.

 

[avenue94]

lol @ "favorite influencer". i haven't watched a single clip of his before this thing happening, and i've probably watched 2 since. seems like you need to imagine things to function. i imagine the essence of the rest of your posts also exist solely in your head. very credible poster.

Uhhh nah, this thread is full of people convinced its an elaborate conspiracy and the allegations are false, as well as people convinced the reporting isn't credible despite not bothering to read it. It's been quite the entertaining and depressing thread.

Also bonus points for the folks who thought the NY Times reported this because they don't realize there is more than one Times in the world.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

It's not a weird tangent: You say you need to see hard evidence before concluding the allegations are credible. That's fine. But you can't describe what that hard evidence looks like. That's barely better than everyone in this thread convinced "oh the elites are out to get him" but can't describe who these elites are or what qualifies for that.

Awfully high standard that I imagine you don't apply uniformly in your life, but more power to ya. I've never said anyone needs to make a premature judgment of rape. That's not even my opinion on the matter.

No company or social media platform is pro free speech. They just difference in the kinds of speech they like and don't like.

I see you too have also not read my multiple posts where I've been clear on the extent of my belief here being that the allegations are credible and if I had to bet I wouldn't bet he was squeaky clean on these matters given rather large breadth of allegations and the evidence we've been presented. I'm sorry that your favorite influencer of the month appears to be a shit bag and that his fans have to resort to absurd conspiracy theories to defend him.

For the part responding to me, that sounds like a real sweeping statement that is probably untrue given the amount of companies out there, and pretty impossible to prove. I know next to nothing about Rumble though to have an opinion on their specific case.

Probably the least moderated popular sites out there would be 4chan and their cousins. I think ~99% of their content are absolute cesspools of garbage, with occasional strokes of genius to be found.

 

[avenue94]

For the part responding to me, that sounds like a real sweeping statement that is probably untrue given the amount of companies out there, and pretty impossible to prove. I know next to nothing about Rumble though to have an opinion on their specific case.

Probably the least moderated popular sites out there would be 4chan and their cousins. I think ~99% of their content are absolute cesspools of garbage, with occasional strokes of genius to be found.

Rumble bans most of the same things as Twitter or FB or anyone else. I'll rephrase and clarify a little. Any big social media company prattling on about how pro free speech they are usually isn't. If Rumble's advertisers start pulling their money over something, I bet you Rumble quickly reconsiders their moderation of that issue. It's marketing, not philosophy for them.

Definitely agree on the extremes being unmoderated hellholes.

 

[Hog-train]

It's not a weird tangent: You say you need to see hard evidence before concluding the allegations are credible. That's fine. But you can't describe what that hard evidence looks like. That's barely better than everyone in this thread convinced "oh the elites are out to get him" but can't describe who these elites are or what qualifies for that.

Awfully high standard that I imagine you don't apply uniformly in your life, but more power to ya. I've never said anyone needs to make a premature judgment of rape. That's not even my opinion on the matter. You're also effectively imposing an impossible to reach standard given there would be no witnesses to this crime nor really any way to tell if the sex was consensual or not forensically.

Uhmm IDK - Maybe have actual victims step up? Actual criminal charges? More text exchanges? Dates? Times?

Oh man that's such an awfully high standard I'm asking for. WTH. Those are normal standards. We don't even know who these supposed women are.

How the hell would you know what I apply uniformly? What the heck are you talking about? I apply the same exact standards to any crime. The same standards that most normal people apply.

 

[avenue94]

Uhmm IDK - Maybe have actual victims step up? Actual criminal charges? More text exchanges? Dates? Times?

The incident happens to be in a no man's land where it's almost impossible to charge, even if she had immediately reported it. The stepping up was reporting it, which isn't easy given plenty of sexual assault victims don't want to go to court and simply want to be heard and move on with their lives. But whatever, agree to disagree.

How the hell would you know what I apply uniformly? What the heck are you talking about? I apply the same exact standards to any crime. The same standards that most normal people apply.

So you ask to see a police report and pictures before you believe any media reporting of local burglaries?

 

[Sinister]

It looks bizzarely important for this @avenue94 guy for these women to have been raped. No jury no deliberation nothing.

Always be weary of shrill zealots like this. How about we wait for the law to look at this.

Yes but when the law looked at and decided on other cases, that wasnt good enough either for many. Then it became "where is the evidence?"

The allegations against Brand are really really thorough, and hes been gross for a long time. They dont just come from the women who interacted with him, there are also people who he worked with and for who are basically like "yeah this guy is a predator."

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Yes but when the law looked at and decided on other cases, that wasnt good enough either for many. Then it became "where is the evidence?"

The allegations against Brand are really really thorough, and hes been gross for a long time. They dont just come from the women who interacted with him, there are also people who he worked with and for who are basically like "yeah this guy is a predator."

not saying he couldn't have done it./ hell, i only watched a few clips of him and he is clearly a douchebag. what i have a problem with is this guilty before being found guilty thing. i don't even think he's been formally accused yet and you have people 100% sure he did it and let's cancel him, take his money and livelihood away, throw away the key, and they are doing it with revengeful glee. this does not bode well for society. we're already fucked up and divided.

 

[Jack V Savage]

This is all happening because of Russell Brand's political speech. If he isn't disruptive to the establishment, the TNI never targets him and he doesn't get demonetized.

Punishment before due process based on unproven allegations is about the most authoritarian thing I can imagine. I'm not surprised you support it.

Your evidence is what? Just imagination, right? As long as he spreads CTs, he can't possibly have done anything bad.

 

[Teppodama]

not saying he couldn't have done it./ hell, i only watched a few clips of him and he is clearly a douchebag. what i have a problem with is this guilty before being found guilty thing. i don't even think he's been formally accused yet and you have people 100% sure he did it and let's cancel him, take his money and livelihood away, throw away the key, and they are doing it with revengeful glee. this does not bode well for society. we're already fucked up and divided.

This has been coming for some time. Society is just a thin veneer over a cesspool. Without a clear set of rules and guidelines that enforce general civility equally with clearly defined penalties it's no wonder this happens and will increase.

Same thing for ever other general law and custom that has defined a society and given it structure. You cannot radically change societal views without destroying the society that held those views. A society dissolving is what you see today. That does not mean that the United States will totally implode just that what you THINK you understand as your nation and society will change in fundamental ways within your lifetime whether you like those changes or not.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

This has been coming for some time. Society is just a thin veneer over a cesspool. Without a clear set of rules and guidelines that enforce general civility equally with clearly defined penalties it's no wonder this happens and will increase.

we have those. problem is the idea that they are a pinnacle of keeping the society together is challenged by the monstrous idea that personal opinion is equal to a set of rules that took society thousands of years to coalesce.

it's not the statues being torn down i'm really concerned about, though that is a symptom of decay, what i'm concerned about is the separate justice that is being built, which is not fair but only vengeful and destructive, based on nothing but hearsay, gossip, gaslighting, i-know-better-ism, even jealousy.

Remember how a courtroom looked like in Idiocracy? "he's guilty your honor, i mean, look at him!". this is where we are heading. this thread is like that.

 

[Sinister]

not saying he couldn't have done it./ hell, i only watched a few clips of him and he is clearly a douchebag. what i have a problem with is this guilty before being found guilty thing. i don't even think he's been formally accused yet and you have people 100% sure he did it and let's cancel him, take his money and livelihood away, throw away the key, and they are doing it with revengeful glee. this does not bode well for society. we're already fucked up and divided.

I understand that, however I would pose the question of why anyone is even divided over Brand in the first place? I cant think of a better example of a man who desperately needs attention and affirmation, who has a definitive addictive personality that warranted contract stipulation to even employ him, who is willing to essentially say literally anything for money. And because he has a modicum of charisma he has been protected and allowed to fail upward. Fired and rehired. And made more and more money. He even said as part of his "comedy" that when wealthy establishments think they can make more money off of you, you can pretty much behave however you want.

No one should be divided over a guy like this...ESPECIALLY if he is repeating back their own ideals to garner their favor. He's a classic slimy TV guy, who gets celebrated to some extent regardless of what "side" he's on, because he will say whatever is either popular...or controversial, and doesn't seem sincere about any of it. And like every other charlatan the MOMENT he gets in any trouble over his actions he begs for money. As if the millions he has made up until this point have suddenly failed him, now he needs our money too. THESE are the moral failures who money and resources are wasted on, much more so than people who were born into misfortune and have known little else but.

 

[avenue94]

And like every other charlatan the MOMENT he gets in any trouble over his actions he begs for money.

If it weren't for the canceled shows (his decision) he in all likelihood he saw an income boost with additional donations outweighing the minimal loss of revenue that's being demonetized on YouTube. He still actually might have made out better.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

I understand that, however I would pose the question of why anyone is even divided over Brand in the first place? I cant think of a better example of a man who desperately needs attention and affirmation, who has a definitive addictive personality that warranted contract stipulation to even employ him, who is willing to essentially say literally anything for money. And because he has a modicum of charisma he has been protected and allowed to fail upward. Fired and rehired. And made more and more money. He even said as part of his "comedy" that when wealthy establishments think they can make more money off of you, you can pretty much behave however you want.

No one should be divided over a guy like this...ESPECIALLY if he is repeating back their own ideals to garner their favor. He's a classic slimy TV guy, who gets celebrated to some extent regardless of what "side" he's on, because he will say whatever is either popular...or controversial, and doesn't seem sincere about any of it. And like every other charlatan the MOMENT he gets in any trouble over his actions he begs for money. As if the millions he has made up until this point have suddenly failed him, now he needs our money too. THESE are the moral failures who money and resources are wasted on, much more so than people who were born into misfortune and have known little else but.

i don't know the guy that well but from little that i have seen your presentation of him seems accurate. but all these make him a slimy manipulative douchebag. the court of law must decide if he's a rapist as well.

 

[avenue94]

i don't know the guy that well but from little that i have seen your presentation of him seems accurate. but all these make him a slimy manipulative douchebag. the court of law must decide if he's a rapist as well.

Emphasis on a court of law. Private companies don't need to wait for that, which seems to upset folks in this thread a lot.