running advice

[NutFlea]

I've been trying for several weeks to finish this run, and it's just not happening:

5 minutes at treadmill level 5 (12 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 6 (10 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 7 (~ 8.5 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 8 (~7.3 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 9 (~ 6.5 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 10 (6 min/mile pace)

The best I've done is up through 4 minutes at level 10, but I can't seem to break that.

It's tough as hell.

Any advice?

BTW: I'm on a strength-training routine at the same time -- a 3 day rotation (legs, push, pull, off). And I generally train running about 3 times each week in addition to doing this run every weekend. My husband thinks I'm overtraining, but I feel fine. I just want to be able to finish this run!

 

[Ian Coe]

How long have you been doing this?


Try a few sessions/a week off and mong out and then build into it again.

You'll probably get past your sticking point


If you don't feel crappy and still progressing (which I will assume you are for lifting because you haven't stated otherwise, although I'm not personally sure if you can stagnate on cardio but still be adapting to strength training.....I would think they aren't mutually exclusive in regards to adaption) keep going.

I would going to give you shit for using a treadmil but you're agirl so....

 

[mmafanw]

wasn't that Chuck Liddell's running program during TUF 1?

 

[swampdonkeyman6]

i suggest taking a break from the treadmill and doing your running outside once or twice. then hit the treadmill again. i find that when i put off working out for a week, the excersises are sometimes/often easier.

 

[NutFlea]

I would going to give you shit for using a treadmil but you're agirl so....

Thanks for the advice. I've been doing it (or trying to) weekly since January. I've made LOTS of progress, and come really close to finishing. Now it's become an obsession.

At the same time, my lifting is improving. I can do 55 deadhang pullups in 10 sets, and my single-rep max's are 75# SOHP, 165# backsquat, and 200# DL, all better than a year ago.

I only run treadmills since I live in India where the air quality is disgusting and any route I might choose will involve dodging shit (literally).

I do think I got this idea from some fighter's training program, but I can't remember who. I thought it was Bas, but maybe Chuck too.

 

[Jake Martin]

I do think I got this idea from some fighter's training program, but I can't remember who. I thought it was Bas, but maybe Chuck too.

I'm pretty sure this was a Bas thing, at least I remember it being in the Big DVD set...I also remember a big shitstorm of a thread over in Ask the Fighters regarding this.

 

[joshetc]

wasn't that Chuck Liddell's running program during TUF 1?

Yes, it was. IIRC Chris Leben was the only person able to finish it. It's actually pretty difficult for anyone that isn't a runner.

 

[Fwogz1]

I've been trying for several weeks to finish this run, and it's just not happening:

5 minutes at treadmill level 5 (12 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 6 (10 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 7 (~ 8.5 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 8 (~7.3 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 9 (~ 6.5 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 10 (6 min/mile pace)

How many miles does that come out to?

 

[TGR74]

If you can, move your running to outside.

For one...it's funner if you have to run.

For two it's funner.

For 3 it's a better workout especially over variable terrain like hiking trails(if you have any available).

4 it's funner.

5 you can get a tan.

6 you can run and drag your dog with you so you both get exercise.

7 you can actually see something other than the guy in the squat rack doing curls or subtitled CNN news.

please add to this

 

[NutFlea]

If you can, move your running to outside.

For one...it's funner if you have to run.

For two it's funner.

I'm a long-time runner and former cross-country coach (many years ago), so I know what running outside is like. But (1) my indoor run IS fun! I'm not complaining about it being boring. and (2) like I said above, running outdoors in India sucks.

For 3 it's a better workout especially over variable terrain like hiking trails(if you have any available).

The run I've described is plenty hard enough. I'm not looking for a "better workout." I'm asking for advice about being able to complete this one, which is already kick-ass.

5 you can get a tan.

Tan = skin cancer. No thanks.

6 you can run and drag your dog with you so you both get exercise.

Don't have a dog. I'm a cat person.

7 you can actually see something other than the guy in the squat rack doing curls or subtitled CNN news.

My husband and I usually have the gym to ourselves. We live on a campus compound, and we pretty much *own* the gym and can do whatever we want. It's awesome.

The point is not that I'm unhappy with this treadmill workout. I love it, and am, in fact, obsessed. But thanks for the response anyway.

 

[NutFlea]

How many miles does that come out to?

I think it works out to about 3.5 miles. But I haven't really paid much attention to the distance. Plus, by the end, I'm usually gasping for breath and barely able to think straight, much less remember the distance display.

 

[Revok]

Just a thought - have you tried flipping it around? Do the fast 5 min first and then decrease incrementally from there. This way you find out if you can even do 5mins @ lvl 10, and then you have to recover from it whilst still running at a decent clip.

Out of curiosity, where are you in India? We've had some pretty exotic training locales in here but that about takes it.

 

[Fwogz1]

Your a long time runner and former xc coach and your asking for help? You says its around 3.5 miles. Maybe you should change it up a bit. Instead of doing the 5 minute thing. Break it up into mile increments. If it is 3.5 miles with 6x5 minutes your averaging around 9 min pace. I would try to do each mile at a steady 8 min pace. Which should be do able for you. Until you build up the strength. Then some days do 800 meter repeats to help build speed and strength. something like 4 to 6x800 at 3:30 and work your way down. With the extra strength and speed you should be able to complete the 5 min work out with ease.

 

[Slowboy]

The distance is around 3.8 miles. If anyone is wondering. Also I would suggest the trying it backwards a couple of times.

 

[pittelp]

Patience.

 

[Loomy]

I've been trying for several weeks to finish this run, and it's just not happening:

5 minutes at treadmill level 5 (12 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 6 (10 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 7 (~ 8.5 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 8 (~7.3 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 9 (~ 6.5 min/mile pace)
5 minutes at level 10 (6 min/mile pace)

The best I've done is up through 4 minutes at level 10, but I can't seem to break that.

It's tough as hell.

Any advice?

BTW: I'm on a strength-training routine at the same time -- a 3 day rotation (legs, push, pull, off). And I generally train running about 3 times each week in addition to doing this run every weekend. My husband thinks I'm overtraining, but I feel fine. I just want to be able to finish this run!

It could be wrong diet, lack of rest, poor training system, etc... but right away it sounds like overtraining. You're working HARD 6 days a week. Some professional athletes will only do that 25 weeks out of the year, and will snack on burritos for the other half. How long have you been doing that routine?

PS: I don't love the sound of that isolated body part split weight training schedule. Especially the legs being all alone. These days many like to focus on more most-of-the-body exercises...

Try taking one month off ALL of that. Do something totally different.

One idea: try high intensity interval training three days a week. Do tabata intervals as hard and fast as you can without worrying about or manipulating the scoring system like the crossfit geniuses do. Just try running almost as fast as you can for 20 seconds, then rest (walk) for 10 seconds, then repeat this 4-8 times until your distance really starts dropping off. That will take like 10 minutes out of your week, and after a couple weeks of that you might just see a difference in your original test performance...

For that month only, you can try taking 5g creatine with protein and sugar/carbs and water an hour before each workout, and then make sure to drink more sugar/carbs afterwards. This can give your muscles more oomph to meet the goal after the month.

 

[NutFlea]

Thanks for all the advice. Many of you have suggested doing it backwards, and that in fact *is* one of my weekly training runs. It's so much easier, especially mentally.

Anyway, the best advice I've heard is to rest. So I did. I took off this week, only ran once (a tabata sprint workout). I lifted legs once (Wednesday) and then didn't do anything leg-related since. So I go over this morning (Saturday), the day after my 41st birthday, and . . .

I DID IT!!!

It wasn't even all *that* hard. I felt relaxed and okay.

Thank you for the advice. Especially Ian Coe, for making me feel okay about dialing back for a week.

 

[NutFlea]

Just a thought - have you tried flipping it around? Do the fast 5 min first and then decrease incrementally from there. This way you find out if you can even do 5mins @ lvl 10, and then you have to recover from it whilst still running at a decent clip.

I can do 5 minutes at level 10. (I wondered about that myself pretty early in this process and tested it to be sure.) But usually only if I'm fresh. I have a few different training runs I've been doing to help me get better, such as:

Tabata sprints:
(1 minute at speed 10, 30 seconds at speed 6) x 8-10

Backwards: 5 mins at speed 10, 5 mins at speed 9, . . . etc.

Hills: Setting the treadmill on the hill program for 30 minutes at level 10-15

Intervals:
1-2 minutes at speed 10, double-time recovery at speed 6

Out of curiosity, where are you in India? We've had some pretty exotic training locales in here but that about takes it.

I live in New Delhi. It's pretty bad. I've been here four years because I love my job. I'm signed on for one more, and that'll have to be it.

 

[NutFlea]

Your a long time runner and former xc coach and your asking for help?

Well, like I said, it was a long time ago. I was dealing with HS girls at a fancy private school, so it's not like it was elite training. Everything I knew was from personal experience, reading "Runner's World," and taking a few classes at the NY Road Runner's club. So I was never any kind of expert. Plus, it's fun to hear what others have to say!

Until about 2 years ago, I measured my running progress simply in terms of mileage. But now I've become a big fan of the shorter/faster workouts.

Instead of doing the 5 minute thing. Break it up into mile increments. If it is 3.5 miles with 6x5 minutes your averaging around 9 min pace. I would try to do each mile at a steady 8 min pace. Which should be do able for you. Until you build up the strength. Then some days do 800 meter repeats to help build speed and strength. something like 4 to 6x800 at 3:30 and work your way down. With the extra strength and speed you should be able to complete the 5 min work out with ease.

800m repeats definitely sounds fun! Thanks for the suggestion. I'm gonna try that this week. 6x800 at 3:30? I imagine the first 3 or 4 will be no problem, but the last few will give me a challenge.

 

[NutFlea]

Patience.

Yeah, I know. Thanks for the reminder.

My husband gets annoyed with me because I want too much too fast. He thinks I should just focus on one thing at a time: either improving cardio, building strength, or dieting/cutting for a better body. I always wish I could have it all . . . NOW! And then when I have a workout where my times are faster, my weights are heavier, etc., I get down on myself.