Rules that are particular to your gym

[blindgod]

Some days you're Walter, some days you're The Dude. Be like Donny, try to find your proper element.

You mean have a heart attack in a bowling alley parking lot?

 

[Calibur]

For the folks still responding to me on the water break issue, I draw your attention to this point made earlier in the thread.



The issue I was responding to wasn't that letting students have water leads to a breakdown in society with the inevitable result being chaos, anarchy, and the return of Sex & The City. While all of these things would be horrible beyond imagination, I wasn't suggesting that water breaks would destroy civilization as any of the above surely would.

No. The issue I was responding to was someone saying that they should be free to hop out of whatever the class is doing to get a drink anytime they want, because they pay for the class. Newsflash. Everyone pays for the class. Which would mean everyone would be entitled to step out of warmups, or walk off during technique, or hop up during timed rounds. That is disruptive to the class, and distracting for the other students.

And bear in mind, all of this has to be tempered with common sense. If someone is having a problem and genuinely needs water, it's not as if they're going to get kicked out of the dojo. But a medical emergency requiring water in a 60 minute class with only 15-20 minutes of warmups? That's fairly rare. Rules like that aren't designed for the guy who is having cramps, they're designed to keep the folks who might like a drink (but don't really need one) from sauntering over to the fountain every 10 minutes.

I have never ever seen someone walk away from instruction for water. racking my brain hard to think of a time and I can't.

If they did, the water is not the underlying issue so I don't see the point in the rule.

 

[KGB256]

This makes me cringe. I teach Science in England. I know what tough teaching is. Running a jiu jitsu gym where people have paid and want to learn is no where near as tough. It means the instructor hasn't planned the lesson correctly. I have seen a lot of gyms and even seminars where they just go to the gym and just show a bunch of techniques they have thought of perhaps 5 minutes beforehand.

Thankfully the gym I go to now plans over weeks rather than session by session and there are beginner, intermediate and advanced classes.

Some of the worst teaching I have has been in seminars where some instructors will show a technique and then just sit down and chat in the corner for about 10 minutes till they get up and show the next technique.

What does having lessons planned out in advance have to do with the passage you've quoted? If you teach, you should know exactly what I'm talking about....it's disruptive when you're trying to teach something if every few minutes students are asking to use the bathroom or get a drink.

Is jiu-jitsu as bad as a science classroom? Certainly not. It happens a lot more with the kids and teens classes than adults, but it still happens. In particular, during parts of class that a student doesn't like. Some guys are just there to roll, and could care less about the rest.

 

[blindgod]

I have never ever seen someone walk away from instruction for water.

I guess I've just been lucky since the two schools I've gone to have a setup where, when you get some water, you're still well within sight and earshot of the instructor. Actually, while he was teaching was the perfect time to get a drink since you could easily see and hear him and you weren't making anyone wait for you.

 

[KGB256]

The original post mentioned not being allowed to drink water during class, that is dumb.

But that doesn't mean that students shouldn't be respectful and take water breaks in transitional periods of the class. I don't think most people are saying that a student should just turn his back and grab water in the middle of learning a technique. It's the idea of making a rule that water is not allowed that makes no sense.

The post that prompted me to jump into this discussion was a guy saying "I pay for the class, I should be able to get a drink anytime I feel like it". No, you shouldn't. You should respect the instructor and the rest of the class enough to take water breaks at appropriate times. If the instructor thinks those times should be before and after the class? So be it.

Pretty much everyone responding is saying "oh having a rule is dumb....but yknow they should just do it at certain times or not doing it while the guy is showing something".

So once again, we have a scenario where the output is PRECISELY THE SAME. Yet for some unknown reason, you guys interpret "hey guys, if you really need water, let me know, but otherwise let's please keep it to before and after class to make the most of our time, okay?" as John Kreese shouting "WATER DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS DOJO, DOES IT??" to the Cobra Kai.

 

[HHJ]

There is no bathroom!!!!!!!!!!

 

[blindgod]

There is no bathroom!!!!!!!!!!

Only Zuul?

On another note, I'm curious what percentage of BJJ-only schools and clubs follow the IBJJF rules about leg locks and knee reaping.

I came from two schools that didn't but would tell you, if you're competing, what the rules are and to practice with them for a time before the actual competition. And I thought this was pretty straight-forward but have been somewhat surprised how many people I've run into online who say that they go to schools where certain types of leglocks aren't allowed at certain levels because of IBJJF rules.

 

[sgtlunajuice]

basic stuff.

no bare feet in the bathroom.
bow before and after class.
move for higher belts during sparring.
no fighting outside the gym.
no curling in the squat rack.

 

[tirofijo]

I'm not at this school anymore.

*Bow in, bow out.

*If you are late, wait on the the mat for the instructor to call you in.

*Never put hands on the mat (to teach you not to put your hands on the mat while in the guard.)

*Face the wall to tie your belt.

*As you end the instruction and break into pairs to drill, the class shouts in unison, "Team ----- -----." Also shouted at end of class. It ends up being shouted five or six times a class.

*Students don't 'teach.' Specifically, students aren't allowed to talk about the technique to each other when drilling. You can't say to your partner, "No, you are supposed to grab my collar with your left hand, not your right." Instead, you are supposed to watch the guy get it wrong over and over. Or stop drilling, raise your hand, wait for the instructor to see you and have time to come over, and then ask "What hand is he supposed to be using to grab the collar? Oh, the left. Thanks." It's a rule that seems to make sense but is impractical if taken too literally.

The formality is more jarring because all of these rules were put in place as we changed instructors. The old instructor was informal and laid back. The new instructor (possibly under guidance from our parent organization) put these rules in place.

 

[HEAVY GRAPPLER]

I have been to a lot of gyms and seen a lot of rules. When traveling, I always bring a plain white gi, bow to instructors and call them "professor." Maximum formality. I picked this tip up from one of Hillary's posts.

Curiously, the gym I started going to this year seems to have almost no rules at all (except absolute bare minimum stuff like no shoes on the mat.)

Gi colour? Whatever.

Show up late? OK.

Need to leave early? That's OK, too.

Bathroom break? Water break? No problem.

Ask the black belt to roll? Sure thing.

Don't wanna do the warmup? OK.

Contract? Nah, just give the instructor cash at the beginning of the month.

Bowing? No. We do line up and shake hands at the end. A few guys with TMA backgrounds (me included,) bow to people in the handshake line.

Despite all this, almost everyone shows up on time, does the warmup and treats each other with respect. The instructor seems to be universally admired and the level of jiu jitsu is very high. We have the highest level competitors and deepest belt ranks of any Canadian school east of Montreal.

Sorta changed the way I think about things. I still think the classic TMA formality is a good thing for beginners and kids, though.

 

[Melkesyre]

I'm not at this school anymore.

*Bow in, bow out.

*If you are late, wait on the the mat for the instructor to call you in.

*Never put hands on the mat (to teach you not to put your hands on the mat while in the guard.)

*Face the wall to tie your belt.

*As you end the instruction and break into pairs to drill, the class shouts in unison, "Team ----- -----." Also shouted at end of class. It ends up being shouted five or six times a class.

*Students don't 'teach.' Specifically, students aren't allowed to talk about the technique to each other when drilling. You can't say to your partner, "No, you are supposed to grab my collar with your left hand, not your right." Instead, you are supposed to watch the guy get it wrong over and over. Or stop drilling, raise your hand, wait for the instructor to see you and have time to come over, and then ask "What hand is he supposed to be using to grab the collar? Oh, the left. Thanks." It's a rule that seems to make sense but is impractical if taken too literally.

The formality is more jarring because all of these rules were put in place as we changed instructors. The old instructor was informal and laid back. The new instructor (possibly under guidance from our parent organization) put these rules in place.

Man i'm glad we don't have those horrible rules at our academy.

 

[KGB256]

I'm not at this school anymore.

*Bow in, bow out.

*If you are late, wait on the the mat for the instructor to call you in.

Fairly standard for schools that do the bowing thing.

*Never put hands on the mat (to teach you not to put your hands on the mat while in the guard.)

Not sure what the instructor is thinking with this one. There are many times in jiu-jitsu where it's perfectly acceptable to put your hand on the mat.

Not to mention it's going to make cartwheel drills pretty hilarious.

*Face the wall to tie your belt.

Not terribly unusual in schools that bow.

*As you end the instruction and break into pairs to drill, the class shouts in unison, "Team ----- -----." Also shouted at end of class. It ends up being shouted five or six times a class.

Meh. He's trying to build team spirit. It's a little silly, but no big deal.

*Students don't 'teach.' Specifically, students aren't allowed to talk about the technique to each other when drilling. You can't say to your partner, "No, you are supposed to grab my collar with your left hand, not your right." Instead, you are supposed to watch the guy get it wrong over and over. Or stop drilling, raise your hand, wait for the instructor to see you and have time to come over, and then ask "What hand is he supposed to be using to grab the collar? Oh, the left. Thanks." It's a rule that seems to make sense but is impractical if taken too literally.

Yeah, I can see this in a beginner's class. Can't see it if you have students of different belt levels. If a newbie is paired with a purple belt, the purple shouldn't have to ask permission to tell him that he's doing the technique wrong. I can't imagine this is very practical unless classes are small, or the instructor has "helper" advanced belts to make sure all the questions get answered.

The formality is more jarring because all of these rules were put in place as we changed instructors. The old instructor was informal and laid back. The new instructor (possibly under guidance from our parent organization) put these rules in place.

It's hard to change the culture of a gym, especially from polar opposites like that. I can't imagine this has gone over great with the members, but most of these rules really are no big deal. The 'no hands' and 'no teach' rules are a bit out of the ordinary and somewhat impractical IMO.

 

[lechien]

Tirofijo description is not that bad at all. The no hand on the mats when in someone closed guard is to avoid getting kimura or omoplata. Not letting students communicate while drilling has many purposes. I suspect the students were just fucking around and where easily carried away by doing some techniques or just showing their own variations which must have pissed the new instructor.

 

[lechien]

I have never ever seen someone walk away from instruction for water. racking my brain hard to think of a time and I can't.

If they did, the water is not the underlying issue so I don't see the point in the rule.

That is because usually a water break is given after warm up and before the technical instruction part of the class.

 

[tirofijo]

Fairly standard for schools that do the bowing thing.



Not sure what the instructor is thinking with this one. There are many times in jiu-jitsu where it's perfectly acceptable to put your hand on the mat.

Not to mention it's going to make cartwheel drills pretty hilarious.



Not terribly unusual in schools that bow.



Meh. He's trying to build team spirit. It's a little silly, but no big deal.



Yeah, I can see this in a beginner's class. Can't see it if you have students of different belt levels. If a newbie is paired with a purple belt, the purple shouldn't have to ask permission to tell him that he's doing the technique wrong. I can't imagine this is very practical unless classes are small, or the instructor has "helper" advanced belts to make sure all the questions get answered.



It's hard to change the culture of a gym, especially from polar opposites like that. I can't imagine this has gone over great with the members, but most of these rules really are no big deal. The 'no hands' and 'no teach' rules are a bit out of the ordinary and somewhat impractical IMO.

I agree with your comments. (Let me clarify that the no hands on mat rule is not meant to supersede times when you need to have your hands on your mat, like breakfalls or something similar. One example would be, say, you are about to start a drill from your opponent's guard. While you are casually getting set up, you don't crawl into the guard on all fours and put your hands on the mat. A bit anal, at the most, but not a big deal.

While I found the team spirit building chants to be a bit juvenile and hokey (I'm old), the only rule that had a real negative impact was the 'no teaching' rule As I said, it sounds logical, but but in practice it was very impractical.

Not letting students communicate while drilling has many purposes. I suspect the students were just fucking around and where easily carried away by doing some techniques or just showing their own variations which must have pissed the new instructor.

If that was the case (and you are correct. The new instructor in fact did want to instill greater discipline in the students), a better way would be to say "Hey, work on the technique as I showed it. Don't freestyle and try to do it your way." Etc. You know, the way all the rest of the BJJ instructors do it. However, this instructor is a product of a very successful gym, so maybe his way is actually better in the long run, even if it was frustrating at times.

 

[lechien]

I agree with your comments. (Let me clarify that the no hands on mat rule is not meant to supersede times when you need to have your hands on your mat, like breakfalls or something similar. One example would be, say, you are about to start a drill from your opponent's guard. While you are casually getting set up, you don't crawl into the guard on all fours and put your hands on the mat. A bit anal, at the most, but not a big deal.

While I found the team spirit building chants to be a bit juvenile and hokey (I'm old), the only rule that had a real negative impact was the 'no teaching' rule As I said, it sounds logical, but but in practice it was very impractical.



If that was the case (and you are correct. The new instructor in fact did want to instill greater discipline in the students), a better way would be to say "Hey, work on the technique as I showed it. Don't freestyle and try to do it your way." Etc. You know, the way all the rest of the BJJ instructors do it. However, this instructor is a product of a very successful gym, so maybe his way is actually better in the long run, even if it was frustrating at times.

You just went from one opposite to another.

I learned in a very conformative rigid strict class so I don't mind at all.

Couple of my teamates went to train overseas at a very succesfull team.

And it was anarchy, chaos...we just have no idea on why they still succeeds so well at comps.

 

[ArTofF16hT1ng]

Another one.

You can't ask any higher belt to roll. A white cannot ask a blue to roll, and a blue cannot ask a purple belt to roll.

You have to ask the instructor, and the instructor pairs you up.

Might be a Korean thing.

 

[Grapplingwizard**]

Another one.

You can't ask any higher belt to roll. A white cannot ask a blue to roll, and a blue cannot ask a purple belt to roll.

You have to ask the instructor, and the instructor pairs you up.

Might be a Korean thing.

I heard you're a virgin.

 

[ElKarlo]

Another one.

You can't ask any higher belt to roll. A white cannot ask a blue to roll, and a blue cannot ask a purple belt to roll.

You have to ask the instructor, and the instructor pairs you up.

Might be a Korean thing.

Might be how strict they are there.

In Japan, as everything is so strict there, BJJ is super relaxed. I have asked BBs to roll. Heck I've jumped on a BBs back and asked if it were ok to roll.

 

[ArTofF16hT1ng]

I heard you're a virgin.

You heard wrong.