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ROYLER GRACIE FINALLY OPENS UP ABOUT EDDIE BRAVO RIVALRY...

DoctorTaco said:
Cliffs:

-the sun was in his eyes
-He has a stomach ache that day
-his shirt was rubbing in a weird way that was distracting
-his knee hurt
-he had a lot of things on his mind at the time
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Lol
 
Ahead on points, was inquirin´about the time left...

In the late Carlson´s words, when one of his students would lose on points:"Who told you to go to them Judges? You know that they are all from Gracie Barra, they dont like you! Why are you cryin´ now? Out of my sight!"
 
gono btw said:
Ahead on points, was inquirin´about the time left...

In the late Carlson´s words, when one of his students would lose on points:"Who told you to go to them Judges? You know that they are all from Gracie Barra, they dont like you! Why are you cryin´ now? Out of my sight!"
Click to expand...
Carlson was og and would have beaten the shit of Bruce Lee who was 8 years younger than him.
 
DoctorTaco said:
Cliffs:

-the sun was in his eyes
-He has a stomach ache that day
-his shirt was rubbing in a weird way that was distracting
-his knee hurt
-he had a lot of things on his mind at the time
Click to expand...

there is NOT ONE Brazilian in history of any martial arts who was healthy and lost...

im shocked you guys dont know that!
 
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NoahG said:
gracies are hated even in brazil because they're too arrogant and they always find some excuse for their losses
Click to expand...
They'd certainly cultivated the myth they were invincible though.
 
Interesting thing about the two is how Eddie Bravo looked down on leglocks for the longest time and also, to an extent, on wrestling, whereas Royler, who in many people's minds is associated with traditionalist BJJ and the "old guard" that Eddie was rebelling against, actually embraced all of the above and can even be seen hitting standing entries into Achilles locks in his ADCC matches. I'd actually argue that between the two, Eddie Bravo was the more close-minded when it came to their approaches to grappling.
 
Kforcer said:
Interesting thing about the two is how Eddie Bravo looked down on leglocks for the longest time and also, to an extent, on wrestling, whereas Royler, who in many people's minds is associated with traditionalist BJJ and the "old guard" that Eddie was rebelling against, actually embraced all of the above and can even be seen hitting standing entries into Achilles locks in his ADCC matches. I'd actually argue that between the two, Eddie Bravo was the more close-minded when it came to their approaches to grappling.
Click to expand...

I don’t know... Eddie had no problem will ankle locks early in his career, JJM advised against them because the Brazilians would riot had he won with one...

Royler and Helio’s side embraces leg locks only after the older guard lost to Fadda’s students and even then, Helio was reluctant to admit it was a weakness in their game, referring to ankle locks as “suburban techniques.” So yeah, Helio had to ensure his kids knew basic ankle locks.

Eddie developed a pretty crazy game around his flexibility that definitely annoyed the Gracies, except for Rickson, who, oddly, learned more leg locks from video tapes Eric Paulson gave him.
 
Coconutwater said:
I don’t know... Eddie had no problem will ankle locks early in his career, JJM advised against them because the Brazilians would riot had he won with one...

Royler and Helio’s side embraces leg locks only after the older guard lost to Fadda’s students and even then, Helio was reluctant to admit it was a weakness in their game, referring to ankle locks as “suburban techniques.” So yeah, Helio had to ensure his kids knew basic ankle locks.

Eddie developed a pretty crazy game around his flexibility that definitely annoyed the Gracies, except for Rickson, who, oddly, learned more leg locks from video tapes Eric Paulson gave him.
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The thing with Fadda was ancient history by the time Royler was competing in ADCC. Eddie was always talking leglocks down in the early days. He even admits as much later on in one of his books. Royler actually took heat from Rorian his game not being "traditional Gracie jiu jitsu" essentially. Royler was constantly incorporating different things into his game, whereas Eddie, until fairly recently, was basically just a guard guy. He himself acknowledged that he went overboard in dismissing the importance of aspects like leglocks and wrestling...he definitely went way, way overboard in ripping catch-wrestling. Eddie even said that a figure-four toe-hold, one of the few submissions he demonstrated in his initial book on the rubber guard, wouldn't work in competition, which is utterly absurd but again, shows what his attitude towards leglocks was. The only ones he believed in were ones like the so-called "vaporizer."

I've heard Erik recount the story about Rickson and the Shooto videotapes, but the fact is that, aside from Rickson's foray into sambo, Royler is the one you actually see successfully attacking with leglocks, and from all sorts of angles. Part of me wonders if Royler didn't leave Vale Tudo Japan with more than just a trophy, but that's all specuation. He was doing stuff like the back-step from half-guard into the knee-bar, dropping to butterfly for a heel-hook attack, lots of stuff that wasn't in vogue back then with the general BJJ community.

Beyond the rhetoric and the general narrative, I think Royler was actually the more open-minded of the two and I think their styles at the time reflected as much.
 
Kforcer said:
The thing with Fadda was ancient history by the time Royler was competing in ADCC. Eddie was always talking leglocks down in the early days. He even admits as much later on in one of his books. Royler actually took heat from Rorian his game not being "traditional Gracie jiu jitsu" essentially. Royler was constantly incorporating different things into his game, whereas Eddie, until fairly recently, was basically just a guard guy. He himself acknowledged that he went overboard in dismissing the importance of aspects like leglocks and wrestling...he definitely went way, way overboard in ripping catch-wrestling. Eddie even said that a figure-four toe-hold, one of the few submissions he demonstrated in his initial book on the rubber guard, wouldn't work in competition, which is utterly absurd but again, shows what his attitude towards leglocks was. The only ones he believed in were ones like the so-called "vaporizer."

I've heard Erik recount the story about Rickson and the Shooto videotapes, but the fact is that, aside from Rickson's foray into sambo, Royler is the one you actually see successfully attacking with leglocks, and from all sorts of angles. Part of me wonders if Royler didn't leave Vale Tudo Japan with more than just a trophy, but that's all specuation. He was doing stuff like the back-step from half-guard into the knee-bar, dropping to butterfly for a heel-hook attack, lots of stuff that wasn't in vogue back then with the general BJJ community.

Beyond the rhetoric and the general narrative, I think Royler was actually the more open-minded of the two and I think their styles at the time reflected as much.
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Very interesting point about Royler, and I’m inclined to agree based on your knowledge.

I kind of give Eddie a pass on being “closed minded”, since the guy tapped Royler using part of his rudimentary system and as such, subconsciously, tried to prove that his system was valid and can be dominant, so he ran with it. After so many years of trying to produce a student who would prove his theories (and failed for the most part), DDS came along and slapped him into sobriety.
 
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Royler fought murahama under mma rules in 2001. This is what murahama had to say about the elder opponent.

"When either guy's technical advantage is not great enough to lead victory (finish), whoever possesses more power must win. Gracie was definitely on the way to be defeated if it wasn't for the bell that saved him. "
 
Without being too harsh or exaggerating can someone explain to me Brazilian mentality about losing?

I used to think it was more an individual thing. "So and so is a sore loser." But almost every single Brazilian has a million excuses. Is it a culture thing im not understanding? I know MMA fighters have a lot of pride but it seems excessive with Brazilians.
 
scorpiorising said:
Without being too harsh or exaggerating can someone explain to me Brazilian mentality about losing?

I used to think it was more an individual thing. "So and so is a sore loser." But almost every single Brazilian has a million excuses. Is it a culture thing im not understanding? I know MMA fighters have a lot of pride but it seems excessive with Brazilians.
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Renzo was never like that.
 
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