Rotating your fist on impact

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Mr.Dream, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. Mr.Dream

    Mr.Dream Blue Belt

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    I've been training Muay Thai for a bit and just recently joined a gym that teaches more boxing styled striking. In addition to learning a new stance, relaxing my shoulders, etc. I'm being taught to keep my fist vertical and turn it horizontal upon impact (when throwing the jab).

    The principle being that you'll be more relaxed and punch faster with a vertical fist and you only want to stiffen your arm (by turning your fist horizontal) on the moment of impact. What I'm having trouble with is integrating this into my punching.

    How exactly should I be training? Should I just throw a vertical fist when shadowboxing? What about focus mitts and heavy bags? How long does it take to begin doing this naturally?

    Currently I find it really awkward to rotate my fist after extending my arm and it slows down everything I'm doing so then sometimes I'll just throw a vertical fist and sometimes I'll just throw a horizontal fist because it's just most comfortable. If I spar I would definitely go back to what's most comfortable. Also is this technique done with only the jab or should the fist be turned with the cross as well?

    Thanks.
     
  2. IS300_TRD

    IS300_TRD Yellow Belt

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    i do it with cross as well
     
  3. PECK CHOKE

    PECK CHOKE Green Belt

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    It sounds like you still need to learn how to throw a punch properly. Many people don't really teach or at least spend the time to fix peoples punches. It sounds like you are turning your punches over too late. It should all be one fluid motion. Don't turn it over too early because then you throw your elbow up, or chicken wing it.

    Here is a decent video on a jab. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ky-tYuZR9c0
     
  4. bellator

    bellator Yellow Belt

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    I believe it's the same principle as in karate punches (shotokan at least).
    By rotating your wrist the moment you hit the strike becomes more powerfull and and it's easier to pull your arm back faster.
     
  5. seamusfish

    seamusfish White Belt

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    always do this, so important.
    in addition to the reason you stated, it increases the likeliness of a punch causing, or aggravating a cut, and also causes your shoulder and deltoid to twist up and cover your jaw.
    always keep 1 hand up, and twist you punches and your jaw is always protected.
     
  6. DangerDan

    DangerDan Guest

    Bas Rutten has an article in fight magazine and he says not to rotate the punch and that it does nothing for the power of your punch.

    Bas Rutten's opinion> anyone else
     
  7. darnok

    darnok Orange Belt

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    All the rotation does is make sure your wrist it tight on impact so you can transfer the force. If you just tighten your fist it will have the same effect, and if you're wearing boxing gloves a vertical fist is also much more likely to punch through the guard than a horizontal fist
     
  8. dkickboxer

    dkickboxer Banned Banned

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    Oh really? Cuz I've seen a lot of boxing trainers teach you to snap your punches at the end by rolling it over. I guess Bas knows more about throwing a jab than boxers.
     
  9. yodaman

    yodaman Brown Belt

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    I'm going to agree with the "roll it over near the end" crowd. I was turning it too early and my punch had no power, now I'm sending the bag flying.
     
  10. ssssmashing

    ssssmashing Purple Belt

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    Really work both. There is a time to use both. Many believe that the vertical punch is faster. The thing that is important is that the punch is never really vertical, even the vertical punch has a twist to it. It varies by individual from 10 to 30 degrees from vertical.

    A twist punch is great for example if you want to strike the throat, a standing fist will not fit. The twist punch also works great for damaging certain organs and can be used to manipulate someone's balance too.

    The "snap" to the punch does not come from the twist, but from the momentary tightening of the arm caused by the squeezing of the fist at impact.

    Real power in a strike does not swing the bag as much as it folds the bag or causes the bag to "jump" depending on the type of strike. (don';t post 8000 videos showing bags swinging, I am aware that inertia moves the bag - I'm really referring to a deep, damaging strike)
     
  11. John L Sullivan

    John L Sullivan Blue Belt

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    Spinning objects are more accurately delivered. That's why quarterbacks throw spirals and the inside of guns are rifled.

    Punches should start from the body with the pinky towards the floor and end with the thumb towards the floor. That's how they land where you want them to and you get the snapping effect.
     
  12. GlassJaw

    GlassJaw SBC hustler.

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    Turning the hand over does no harm and can help in some cases. the TMA style of "snap the wrist" on top of turning the punch over is limited by wraps and gloves securing your wrist movement.
     
  13. JohnnyBuddha

    JohnnyBuddha Brown Belt

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    Learning proper technique--"learning" as in doing it naturally--takes a lot of practice, so keep at it. Do it slowly, repeatedly, and eventually it'll come more naturally.

    One thing I focus on is rolling the shoulder over. I find that when I focus on snapping my fist over it ends up feeling awkward and can put pressure on my elbow joint. Concentrate on beginning the roll-over from your shoulder--done properly, your shoulder should roll up and protect your jaw.

    Proper rotation with proper muscle tightness/relaxation also helps your arm recoil quickly and naturally to the beginning position--very good for defense and flow to combos.
     
  14. Mr.Dream

    Mr.Dream Blue Belt

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    Let me rephrase my situation. What my coach is actually telling me is that I'm turning my fist too early. I'm used turning my fist in one fluid motion ending with a horizontal fist but I'm being told that it is making my arm stiff and that I need to keep my fist vertical untill the moment of impact. I saw him mention this to another student that seemed pretty proficient in boxing (that he was turning his fist over too early).

    Does anybody agree with this?

    It is definitely taking a lot of concentration right now to time the moment of impact and then turn my fist over. During training I'll arbitrarily throw a horizontal fist or a vertical fist. Today I threw mostly horizontal fists because I wanted to hit hard (concentrating on the technique slows me down a lot).
     
  15. yodaman

    yodaman Brown Belt

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    Actually, I do. If you turn your fist too early, your arm will be bent and your power will be serverely decreased. It's simple mechanics, a straight line will deliver more power than a chicken wing arm.
     
  16. JohnnyBuddha

    JohnnyBuddha Brown Belt

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    I know exactly what you mean. What helped me was doing a round of "vertical" punches (don't rotate your wrist) slowly and deliberately. Then the next round, do slow, deliberate punches with the rotation at the very end (and concentrate on rotating from your shoulder!). Do these very slowly (might have to do it at home) and get a feel for that last second rotation. Practice, practice, practice!
     
  17. T_Money_

    T_Money_ Blue Belt

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    Thats awesome advice, just shadowboxing a little that feels so much more natural than what I was doing before (trying to turn it over at the elbow. Also, on the cross, turn your palm toward the opponent right before you strike and then throw it kinda like a shotput (elbow in).
     
  18. Mr.Dream

    Mr.Dream Blue Belt

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    Yea, thanks for the great advice Johnny B, will try it out.
     
  19. ssssmashing

    ssssmashing Purple Belt

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    The only punch I can see doing this on is the overhand right. If you throw a jab and end with your thumb down you are flaring your elbows out and leaving your ribs wide open and losing power.
     
  20. John L Sullivan

    John L Sullivan Blue Belt

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    If the fist is in the middle of a clock, my thumb is pointing at 4:30ish.

    Like this:

    [​IMG]
     

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