Rose vs Valentina

[Conor3WeightChamp]

That's just excuse. When Amanda fought a bigger woman at a higher weight class She starched her.

LMAO Valentina was what, 10 pounds lighter when she schooled Amanda in the second fight?

Judges gifted Nunes the win thanks to a min of top control where Valentina landed more strikes from
the bottom. The most farcical decision in MMA history.

Valentina pound for pound female GOAT, best striker/grappling combo of all time.

 

[Sanserif]

It is clear nunes is afraid of fighting Shevchenko again as she knows she will lose this time and nobody will remember her legacy after that.

 

[muaythaidon1]

That's just excuse. When Amanda fought a bigger woman at a higher weight class She starched her.

Amanda and Cyborg are the same height, Cyborg might have 5 lbs on her, Amanda is 2 or three inches bigger than Val, and is 20 - 30lbs heavier than her. Massive difference.

 

[rodkek]

Rose is a better fighter, but valentina is bigger with a better frame

 

[Sanserif]

Rose is a better fighter, but valentina is bigger with a better frame

Namajunas may be a better pure boxer but in all other fighting skill sets and in sheer strength and athleticism and experience Shevchenko surpasses her clearly. It is a good thing for namajunas that they are good friends and training mates and won't fight each other anyway.

 

[sfer1]

Namajunas may be a better pure boxer but in all other fighting skill sets and in sheer strength and athleticism and experience Shevchenko surpasses her clearly. It is a good thing for namajunas that they are good friends and training mates and won't fight each other anyway.

Rose is a better pure boxer, she's faster and has more creative BJJ.

Besides, styles make fights. Valentina is counter striker. I don't see her having an easy day trying to do that with someone who's faster and more elusive, and punches harder.

Valentina's path to victory would be to close the distance and wrestle Rose. Namajunas is dangerous on the ground though.

 

[Tapatio]

Rose would just get bully beatdowned like Andrade did and she knows it. She'll stay in her lane if Pat knows what's best

 

[Sanserif]

Rose is a better pure boxer, she's faster and has more creative BJJ.

Besides, styles make fights. Valentina is counter striker. I don't see her having an easy day trying to do that with someone who's faster and more elusive, and punches harder.

Valentina's path to victory would be to close the distance and wrestle Rose. Namajunas is dangerous on the ground though.

I am not sure namajunas is faster. She may appear to be so as she likes to press her opponents but that be illusory.

I agree Shevchenko likes to counter and in fact her timing and nous as a counter fighter is probably peerless as a woman mma fighter. That is where namajunas' style will fall right into Shevchenko's wheelhouse and why I think her style does not favour her fighting the latter.

On the ground i agree namajunas has very good submission ability even on her back but then again she is not exactly a female maia either and Shevchenko has showed tremendous wrestling ability to totally nullify andrade on the ground and andrade is a black belt in bjj. As long as Shevchenko doesn't make a mistake she should sill have the advantage on the ground particularly with her greater strength.

 

[Satan's Daddy.]

Make it happen Dana.

Valentina deserves to be double champ.

 

[aerius]

Rose is a better pure boxer, she's faster and has more creative BJJ.
Besides, styles make fights. Valentina is counter striker. I don't see her having an easy day trying to do that with someone who's faster and more elusive, and punches harder.
Valentina's path to victory would be to close the distance and wrestle Rose. Namajunas is dangerous on the ground though.

Boxing is close enough that it doesn't matter, speed advantage would actually go to Valentina; I've gone through their fights frame by frame and Val is faster by about a frame on most strikes.

Rose's BJJ doesn't work against opponents who are positionally aware and don't get into scrambles. She's much like Pettis who can grab something fast in a scramble but can't work a methodical game to advance position and work for a sub. Valentina is way too controlled & measured with her grappling for Rose to get anything done.

In terms of style matchups, Rose is the more active striker but it doesn't matter, every one of Valentina's opponents has their volume chunked by at least 1/3 and their accuracy goes down the drain as well. Rose may have a slight edge in boxing but she doesn't have Val's defence and she also gets out kicked. When it gets to the clinch it's done, Rose isn't particularly good in the clinch and she's going against the best clinch fighter in the game who also has a significant strength advantage. Not gonna end well.

Rose is one of the most skilled women in the game and a hell of a fighter, but Valentina has too many advantages over her.

 

[sfer1]

I am not sure namajunas is faster. She may appear to be so as she likes to press her opponents but that be illusory.

I agree Shevchenko likes to counter and in fact her timing and nous as a counter fighter is probably peerless as a woman mma fighter. That is where namajunas' style will fall right into Shevchenko's wheelhouse and why I think her style does not favour her fighting the latter.

On the ground i agree namajunas has very good submission ability even on her back but then again she is not exactly a female maia either and Shevchenko has showed tremendous wrestling ability to totally nullify andrade on the ground and andrade is a black belt in bjj. As long as Shevchenko doesn't make a mistake she should sill have the advantage on the ground particularly with her greater strength.

After training with Rose, one of things Valentina mentioned was that Rose is "very fast."

Andrade's' BJJ is garbage compared to Rose's. No matter if she has a black belt or not. Rewatch what happened when she took Rose down in the third round of their second fight. She didn't do shit on top and Rose almost caught her thrice within 30 seconds.

 

[sfer1]

Make it happen Dana.

Valentina deserves to be double champ.

If they ever fought, it would be at 125. And if Valentina won, she would only retain her title, not be double champ.

 

[DestinedAussie]

Did you see how she manhandled the supposedly strongest 115er that slammed rose? What do you think she would do to rose?

Or does rose stand any chance striking with Valentina?

Also Valentina vs Amanda is not just a superfight. It's for wmma goat.

Sure rose is great but so is her division. The only deep wmma division. She has fights there...

This. Val would murder her, there isn't an area rose has an advantage IMO (maybe crazier coach?)

 

[chardog]

Rose has a chance, Valentina doesn’t have the same pep she once had, and past her prime.

 

[The Fat Mexican]

Valentina is bigger, and better everywhere

 

[bluestwhale]

Several reasons AGAINST making this fight:
1. MOST IMPORTANTLY, Rose just won the title and has a queue of legit contenders to defend the belt against. I think she beats them all, but I need to see it. I really hate holding up divisions when there are actual contenders. Valentina on the other hand has completely cleared out her division. Yes theres Murphy, who will probably be about a +2000 underdog. Thats not a /UFC fight, thats an episode of bully beatdown.

2. Its not overly competitive. In striking range its actually super competitive i believe. But as soon as Val grabs a hold of her, Rose is going for a ride and the round is over. I could be wrong here, but I'd say Val is at least -500 favourite. To justify making a Champ vs Champ fight you need to have it be a close competitive fight, this is not that. Yes, Rose has a shot, but its not a good one.

3. Neither of them wants it. This is the same reason Val vs Amanda isn't happening, neither wants it. And why would they, they make no more money to fight a super tough person. If i'm Valentina, i'm just handing Lauren Murphy a beatdown for a million dollars and going back to Peru to third-wheel.

 

[Sanserif]

Several reasons AGAINST making this fight:
1. MOST IMPORTANTLY, Rose just won the title and has a queue of legit contenders to defend the belt against. I think she beats them all, but I need to see it. I really hate holding up divisions when there are actual contenders. Valentina on the other hand has completely cleared out her division. Yes theres Murphy, who will probably be about a +2000 underdog. Thats not a /UFC fight, thats an episode of bully beatdown.

2. Its not overly competitive. In striking range its actually super competitive i believe. But as soon as Val grabs a hold of her, Rose is going for a ride and the round is over. I could be wrong here, but I'd say Val is at least -500 favourite. To justify making a Champ vs Champ fight you need to have it be a close competitive fight, this is not that. Yes, Rose has a shot, but its not a good one.

3. Neither of them wants it. This is the same reason Val vs Amanda isn't happening, neither wants it. And why would they, they make no more money to fight a super tough person. If i'm Valentina, i'm just handing Lauren Murphy a beatdown for a million dollars and going back to Peru to third-wheel.

Logically speaking i suspect Shevchenko would want a fight with nunes badly - she has said words to that effect before. Losing another fight to nunes makes little diff to her legacy so the chance of winning against her is worth it because if she wins, she is a legitimate shout to be the greatest of all time in nunes' place. But coasting with easy fights as she is doing now does nothing for that discussion and the audience is already bored with those fights as witnessed by the low billing givne by the ufc to her fight. Such match ups may even impact her income per flight.

It is nunes who has nothing to gain from such a fight because she could easily lose such a fight which would destroy her legacy. Once you take away her greater size and strength she knows that Shevchenko is her superior in all technical mma skills and would annihilate her easily if those advantages were taken away. So logic dictate that if such a superfight ultimately doesn't happen it would be nunes who would not agree to it, not Shevchenko.

 

[bluestwhale]

Logically speaking i suspect Shevchenko would want a fight with nunes badly - she has said words to that effect before. Losing another fight to nunes makes little diff to her legacy so the chance of winning against her is worth it because if she wins, she is a legitimate shout to be the greatest of all time in nunes' place. But coasting with easy fights as she is doing now does nothing for that discussion and the audience is already bored with those fights as witnessed by the low billing givne by the ufc to her fight. Such match ups may even impact her income per flight.

It is nunes who has nothing to gain from such a fight because she could easily lose such a fight which would destroy her legacy. Once you take away her greater size and strength she knows that Shevchenko is her superior in all technical mma skills and would annihilate her easily if those advantages were taken away. So logic dictate that if such a superfight ultimately doesn't happen it would be nunes who would not agree to it, not Shevchenko.

I agree with much of what you're saying. However I don't believe either girl has expressed much interest in the fight. Val has only shown a little after being pressed by the media. Its very clear to me seeing her interviews that she has very little interest in the fight. She spent YEARS in a weight class (135lbs) that was not her natural weight classs. She spent years competing against bigger girls and having to outskill them while being at a physical disadvantage. When the UFC opened 125, only 3 years ago, Val was super happy to compete at her proper weight. So I think this history makes her not want to move weight again.

Also another thing i didn't mention is that their last fight was a stinker. It seems like people have forgotten, it was hella boring.

 

[MarleyLynx]

Valentina by a long shot. Way too fast and technical. Better wrestling. Better gameplan. Better everywhere except unorthodoxy and power.

 

[julmma]

I seriously doubt Valentina can make 115 without killing herself. If they ever fought, it would be at 125. And if Valentina won, she would only retain her title, not be double champ.

Valentina and her team has said a lot of times she can make 115; they just decided it’s not worth because she has to cut as much as JJ does; they decide to stay healthy at a normal cut, not a difficult cut. But she can do it if she decides to.