Roger Gracie side control to mount analysis (vid)

[ESH]

common guys! Thats all you can think of?!

Give me a 10 min interview with him and I

 

[Ninjamurf]

Thanks Luther.


If I only had one question to ask Roger, this would be it. I honestly believe he believes "if done right, nobody can defend" though i doubt he could say so on camera.

It

 

[Fedorzilla]

I truly believe that if you do everything perfectly, the submission can’t be defended. I am not there yet personally, but I believe the potential exists somewhere out there. This goes against the grain of the philosophy of "for every move there is a counter" I truly believe that with correct weight, positioning, timing and other basic attributes that techniques from the mount can’t be stopped.

My justification for this belief is based on my study of Roger as well as other once in a generation jiu jitsu players with the similar ability to transcend their peers (Rickson). They have a seemingly unusual ability to maintain and finish from he mount.

I don't disagree with you and think this is a good account. Didn't know that Rickson's game was so mount-oriented. What you say makes sense for obvious reasons (because they don't have the ability to use their legs to defend) and while this is true of side control as well, there is the increased threat of the legs becoming involved and their ability to bridge larger. I was not an am not questioning your thinking, and like I said "the great jiu jitsu minds" think like this, the points reflect it, and there's a reason. Roger is almost an anomaly as someone who has taken the mount to an absurd degree of efficiency and success though, and plenty of world-class guys do stick to a side-control-oriented game. So, I was just looking on insight as to your personal take on what makes it the focus. Thank you.

To get a fair assessment you should not look at the number of submissions from mount in absolute terms, rather you should compare the percentage of matches finished once you reach a specific position, and compare the results.

Exactly. I was just curious if anyone actually had those numbers. We have general impression that mount is better than side control, but (again Roger aside) I would be very curious to see what the percentages would be comparing side control to mount. In fact, I believe that lots of players cannot finish from the mount and that's why my opinion is that the back is the most superior position. Roger is able to make the mount an endgame, but it seems that many more players (particularly smaller players like Terere, Mendes, Cobrinha) accomplish this from the back. I could imagine that, had he not gotten of track, Terere's back mount would be as/more dangerous than Roger's mount.

For the purposes of this discussion though (i.e., progressing from side control), it would seem easier to progress to mount from side control rather than to the back and perhaps that's the best reason why -- from side control specifically -- the goal should be to reach mount.

 

[qiksilverman]

this thread makes me sad because my mount sucks
- sergio moraes mount felt awful i knew exactly what he was going to do and couldn't stop it
-a black belt at the school's mount is awesome as well although he is more about shoulder pressure on your face while in mount - roger's is differnt trumpetdan care to comment on this?

 

[TrumpetDan]

black belt at the school's mount is awesome as well although he is more about shoulder pressure on your face while in mount - roger's is differnt trumpetdan care to comment on this?

Roger does shoulder pressure to set up the lead choking hand too most of the time. I have a cross choke video with footage of Roger if you want to check it out on my channel. Shoulder pressure is a key component. It is the first of a 3 part series on the cross choke a la roger.

Ricksons entry was from posture most of the time. He was also much more willing to go from the armbar from mount. Roger doesnt like the armbar from mount as much as Rickson did. Rickson used to teach a cool maintaining the mount drill from posture that was passed to me by one of his students (now black belt and one of my instructors). He also shared a pretty funny story to go along with the drill.

Rickson setup from posture:



cool deal.

 

[saywhuuh]

awesome

 

[HardEight]

...Rickson used to teach a cool maintaining the mount drill from posture that was passed to me by one of his students (now black belt and one of my instructors). He also shared a pretty funny story to go along with the drill...

Come on man you can't tell us something like that and not share the drill or the story!:icon_chee

 

[TrumpetDan]

hahah...it looses a bit over the internet but it was a well told story.

basically Rickson had a drill where you are mounted with posture...as he tried to bump him off you would kind of ride your hips with his hips as you threw your hips forward so you could stay with posture. You would do it from one end of the mat to the other. He would often call it "riding the hors-e" and this isnt when his english is what it is right now. The interesting looking drill and an interesting way of saying "ride the hors-e", apparently came off as a pretty funny thing to watch from the side from the real baddest man on the planet.

as a random note...he supports everything positive that has been said about Ricksons jiu jitsu. in his mind, he could never see rickson tapping based on the countless times he would clean house with blackbelts in the room. I even asked him Rickson vs Roger and he said Rickson but that he was biased. In his mind he just cant ever see him loosing to anybody.