Rocky 5 did not make sense...

[TheTickG]

I never understood why Rocky had such a disdain for Duke. I mean in reality, he could of continued training with Tommy and Tommy would have continued fighting for Dukes promotions. It would have been the perfect set up. Rocky works as a trainer, Duke as a manager and promoter.

Tommy had a point of " I am 20 and 0 but where is the money!?"



In reality, you need promoters to spend their own money in order to create events. True that the promoter is not risking his well being but he is risking his money to make sure an event takes place. They also have to take of, promotion, working with a championship organization like WBC or WBA and they have to fill the undercards and make sure to advertise through various agencies and media. Of course sometimes you have a manager who works with a promoter and in Dukes case, he is a manager AND a promoter which makes life easier.

In Rocky 5, Duke mentioned that Rocky could stay as a trainer since he was doing a wonderful job and Duke never had a problem with Rocky. Both Tommy and Duke were happy with Rocky's training result.


Am I wrong here? Was Duke really the bad guy in this whole thing?

Logically speaking, it makes sense that a guy with brain damage, with a history of losing all his money, makes a rash and bad business decision.

Still a great movie as it continues the Rocky arc to show what happens when the career ends.

 

[ALAN PARTRIDGE]

I never understood why Rocky had such a disdain for Duke. I mean in reality, he could of continued training with Tommy and Tommy would have continued fighting for Dukes promotions. It would have been the perfect set up. Rocky works as a trainer, Duke as a manager and promoter.

Tommy had a point of " I am 20 and 0 but where is the money!?"



In reality, you need promoters to spend their own money in order to create events. True that the promoter is not risking his well being but he is risking his money to make sure an event takes place. They also have to take of, promotion, working with a championship organization like WBC or WBA and they have to fill the undercards and make sure to advertise through various agencies and media. Of course sometimes you have a manager who works with a promoter and in Dukes case, he is a manager AND a promoter which makes life easier.

In Rocky 5, Duke mentioned that Rocky could stay as a trainer since he was doing a wonderful job and Duke never had a problem with Rocky. Both Tommy and Duke were happy with Rocky's training result.


Am I wrong here? Was Duke really the bad guy in this whole thing?

That's the measure of a man.

 

[aus101]

Balboa was good and the same goes for the two Creed movies.

There is no Rocky 5. What the hell is the TS talking about?

Well Balboa kind of retconned 5 didn't it. The guy has cte in 5 yet by 6 he suffers no symptoms and can go back to fighting?

 

[Bald1]

Well Balboa kind of retconned 5 didn't it. The guy has cte in 5 yet by 6 he suffers no symptoms and can go back to fighting?

5? What the hell is this 5 people keep talking about?


So, yes. Exactly.

 

[ALAN PARTRIDGE]

Duke was turning Tommy against Rocky from day 1, so Duke obvious had issues with Rocky.

 

[Ogata]

Duke is a bit of a shady character, but if they had listened to him they both would have made mad bank on the fight , instead financial genius Rockys plan is “ Na man let’s just try and kill each other right now in the street for free “ no wonder he went broke

Exactly!

Union Cane was not a threat. Tommy was after training with Rocky. Tommy did way more damage than Union could have. Had Rocky fought Union, it would have been an easy payday and an easy opponent. He would have avoided all this Tommy bullshit all together.

Every Rocky foe gave him some type of ability or fortune. With Clubber he gained footwork and boxing skills. Drago inspired him to become a cardio god. Apollo was the reason he was elevated to icon status. Even Mason Dixon indirectly helped him repair his bond with his son before moving to Vancouver.

Tommy offered nothing. Rocky won a street fight but it was tragic in a sense. Even in victory he made no money, took tons of damage and life moved on without adding any dimension to him. Duke offered insane payday that could have put him back in a decent neighborhood without the stress and hassle of making ends meet in a rough area.

The explanation was that his managers screwed him, which, at the time of Don King's ascension, was a very valid criticism of the sport.

He had no managers. He had Paulie who trusted a bad lawyer that had the power of attorney over them. Not sure how it worked. They never even showed the lawyer.

 

[Ogata]

Logically speaking, it makes sense that a guy with brain damage, with a history of losing all his money, makes a rash and bad business decision.

Still a great movie as it continues the Rocky arc to show what happens when the career ends.

I sort of hear what your saying but he didn't have a history of losing money. Paulie lost it and it was only one time to be fair. Aside from Duke, he was still in peak fame. Could have charged money to do talks about his time in the Soviet union and what it was like fighting Drago and getting cheered by the people of USSR.

That was an option as well as taking Dukes offer, fighting, winning and making tons of money beating Mike Williams or Union Cane. Apparently, after the movie, Mike and Tommy were going to fight for real since both were pro boxers. You know Tommy Morrison and then there is Mike/Union:

That's the measure of a man.

How is that the measure of the man?

Duke made Tommy rich. He was 20 and 0 without any money. Had he injured himself, he would have been screwed. Tommy is a price fighter and his job is to make the most amount of money as soon as possible. Rocky was not Micky, he had no ability to promote, pick opponents, manage events. He is a great trainer but that is all. With Adonis, he does not need to promote because Adonis is a creed and the name speaks for itself.

 

[BisexualMMA]

I sort of hear what your saying but he didn't have a history of losing money. Paulie lost it and it was only one time to be fair. Aside from Duke, he was still in peak fame. Could have charged money to do talks about his time in the Soviet union and what it was like fighting Drago and getting cheered by the people of USSR.

That's part of what Rocky 2 was about. He made decent money from the first Apollo fight but spent it like a drunken sailor and had to give Paulie his car because he couldn't make the payments.

 

[William Huggins]

Anyone who thinks any aspect of Rocky doesn't make sense is a God damn communist and probably can't figure out how to put on their velcro shoes.

Communist aren't allowed to have nice things like Velcro.............

 

[ALAN PARTRIDGE]

I sort of hear what your saying but he didn't have a history of losing money. Paulie lost it and it was only one time to be fair. Aside from Duke, he was still in peak fame. Could have charged money to do talks about his time in the Soviet union and what it was like fighting Drago and getting cheered by the people of USSR.

That was an option as well as taking Dukes offer, fighting, winning and making tons of money beating Mike Williams or Union Cane. Apparently, after the movie, Mike and Tommy were going to fight for real since both were pro boxers. You know Tommy Morrison and then there is Mike/Union:






How is that the measure of the man?

Duke made Tommy rich. He was 20 and 0 without any money. Had he injured himself, he would have been screwed. Tommy is a price fighter and his job is to make the most amount of money as soon as possible. Rocky was not Micky, he had no ability to promote, pick opponents, manage events. He is a great trainer but that is all. With Adonis, he does not need to promote because Adonis is a creed and the name speaks for itself.

was a joke that you didn't get, move on.

 

[El Panteron]

Was there a Rocky V?
Is it even worse that that red scare propaganda shit?

 

[4daLuLZ]

I do believe with rocky 5 they were going with some kind of parody of Don King. I don't remember the movie giving out right examples of how Dukes is a bad person. Rocky 5 is without a doubt the worst rocky in the whole franchise and I think this is a wide consensus.

This.
You’d be surprised how many ppl miss the wink wink nod nod to Don King. The guys name is Duke ffs.
Duke…..King ???
In aristocratic titles, a Duke is usually the brother of the King.

 

[K4BOSH]

What i dont get is how Rocky's son grows up hella fast from Rocky IV to V...Rocky spent no more than a week in Russia. When they come back to America the kid is basically a young man.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

The worst Rocky movie by a fair way I think, still good enough for a rewatch though.

 

[Halifax]

I never understood why Rocky had such a disdain for Duke. I mean in reality, he could of continued training with Tommy and Tommy would have continued fighting for Dukes promotions. It would have been the perfect set up. Rocky works as a trainer, Duke as a manager and promoter.

Tommy had a point of " I am 20 and 0 but where is the money!?"



In reality, you need promoters to spend their own money in order to create events. True that the promoter is not risking his well being but he is risking his money to make sure an event takes place. They also have to take of, promotion, working with a championship organization like WBC or WBA and they have to fill the undercards and make sure to advertise through various agencies and media. Of course sometimes you have a manager who works with a promoter and in Dukes case, he is a manager AND a promoter which makes life easier.

In Rocky 5, Duke mentioned that Rocky could stay as a trainer since he was doing a wonderful job and Duke never had a problem with Rocky. Both Tommy and Duke were happy with Rocky's training result.


Am I wrong here? Was Duke really the bad guy in this whole thing?

Duke was like a movie carbon copy of Don King.

If you don't understand why folks hated and didn't want to work with King, then.....

 

[hohner]

Communist aren't allowed to have nice things like Velcro.............

Well...yeah.

 

[Ogata]

That's part of what Rocky 2 was about. He made decent money from the first Apollo fight but spent it like a drunken sailor and had to give Paulie his car because he couldn't make the payments.

Damn I don't remember that!

Rocky is a tragic character. He lacks wits, savvy and smarts to be a businessman. If he had Terry Silvers character, he would have opened up Rocky's ruff road boxing franchise. Make vhs, weight gainers and other merchandise to elevate his status to Billionaire status. Hell he might even teach for free. When people say boxing in Philly they would say Rockys boxing, the mick style boxing. Tommy and Duke woulden't even be a memory!

Duke was like a movie carbon copy of Don King.

If you don't understand why folks hated and didn't want to work with King, then.....

I know and that is true. But say what you want, Don King did make them rich. Now correct me if I am wrong, could a boxer become filthy rich without a Don King type manager/promoter?

I ask because I feel like folks like Don King are necessary evil.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Damn I don't remember that!

Rocky is a tragic character. He lacks wits, savvy and smarts to be a businessman. If he had Terry Silvers character, he would have opened up Rocky's ruff road boxing franchise. Make vhs, weight gainers and other merchandise to elevate his status to Billionaire status. Hell he might even teach for free. When people say boxing in Philly they would say Rockys boxing, the mick style boxing. Tommy and Duke woulden't even be a memory!

That's kind of what Apollo is, especially in Rocky 3, a non evil Terry Silver.

 

[Ogata]

That's kind of what Apollo is, especially in Rocky 3, a non evil Terry Silver.

True and my favorite Apollo scene was reading his hate mail. It was like reading YouTube comment sections and yet there was not even an internet back then. Apollo was truly a great character. He had great footwork, the wits about him, understood the business inside and out. Also a great provider for his family. Adonis story bothered me because his explanation meant that Apollo had to be a cheater.

That being said, he has two kids from his actual wife. What happened to them?

 

[Halifax]

Damn I don't remember that!

Rocky is a tragic character. He lacks wits, savvy and smarts to be a businessman. If he had Terry Silvers character, he would have opened up Rocky's ruff road boxing franchise. Make vhs, weight gainers and other merchandise to elevate his status to Billionaire status. Hell he might even teach for free. When people say boxing in Philly they would say Rockys boxing, the mick style boxing. Tommy and Duke woulden't even be a memory!



I know and that is true. But say what you want, Don King did make them rich. Now correct me if I am wrong, could a boxer become filthy rich without a Don King type manager/promoter?

I ask because I feel like folks like Don King are necessary evil.

You asked, I answered. Once Boxers know a promoter is scummier than usual, word spreads quick. Which is why Don King fell off the radar and nobody would deal with him anymore.
To quote Mike Tyson
“He did more bad to black fighters than any white promoter ever in the history of boxing.”