RICKSON GRACIE (The FUTURE of Jiu-Jitsu, ENDORSES Ryron & Rener's Curriculum, Gracie University)

[kpoz12]

I wanna see which world champions would be clueless about self defence.

Also, did everyone miss when Rickson said he wants a "championship" for self defence (but without "fighting each other)?
So, Jiu Jitsu is gonna have a Kata division now?

 

[whougonnacall]

I agree with the notion that the average sport BJJ player is not well equipped for a street fight. I also agree the foundation of any martial art should be to make a person capable of defending themselves. Where they lose me is in the Gracie "self defense techniques". I think they are mostly retarded and a waste of time. At best, they are incomplete and overly rely on grappling without the use of strikes where appropriate. Grappling is great. But, it is not the solution to every problem.

The truth is that a sport BJJ player needs a good second martial art that involves striking. You will never learn to strike and deal with strikes effectively in BJJ. In a real fight, people strike.

I started in 1994 with Rickson. Every single person had experience and/or black belts in other striking arts. The Gracie motto was that it was smart to add Jiu Jitsu to your already existing (stand up) skills. The same thing applies today.

BJJ is great. It is not the only art you need. You need three skill sets to make yourself prepared:

1. Grappling
2. Striking
3. Weapons

You can't get them all at one place.

Ur right and that takes us back to japanese jujitsu (ie grappling,striking and weapons) funny how things go round like that.

 

[yetanother]

I mean come on, we all know the Miyaos, as badass as they are on the mats, would get KTFO in a real fight.

How do you know that?

 

[jack36767]

Really??? How about if you live in NYC? It is near impossible to get licensed to carry a gun, you cannot have a knife with a blade over 3 inches and you best make sure you cannot flick that blade open without a second hand or have fun getting arrested, and if you think you are carrying any other weapon worth a shit be prepared to be arrested by the cops. Oh, and God help you if you do use lethal force on someone attacking you in NYC because you will be brought up on charges.

But we could train the GJJ thing and be able to control a fight without even needing to strike, or some kid getting bullied can use grappling without strikes to stop a bully.


Out of curiosity, what are you crying about? Rickson is making a federation with the rules he wants just like the IBJJF did. No one has to join the federation---CHOICE. I know it is crazy. The only strength any federation has is its members and the quality of those members.

The online belt ONLY means you successfully completed gracie combatives. It is not a blue belt.

Marcelo Garcia does not allow newbs to roll either. This is a fact. I guess he is a fraud.

GA is giving newbs the combatives and after mastering these they get a belt that means nothing outside of GA, so why does it matter to you? Before they can get a blue belt they have to roll and go into the "regular" classes.

And as far as an attempt to get new students, it seems that this is an attempt to keep self defense in GJJ/BJJ before it is lost to training to enter some contest where you pay $80 to pajama wrestle some other dude in hopes of getting a cheap ass sword.




Holy shit, then every fucking BJJ school is a pyramid scheme. Everyone trains so someday they can get X belt and open up a school. It is all a scam. How does it feel to be part of the pyramid scheme???



Can you explain how this is a cash grab? Honestly, it seems to me that some people still care about GJJ/BJJ teaching self defense.

I hoprefer to God you never get in a street fight, for your own good and safety

I'm not being sarcastic

 

[Oldguy]

First of all to think that budo jake didn't know choke defense is asinine. There are a multitude of ways to defend the choke, Rickson wanted a specific defense. So instead of telling jake to "do defense x", Rickson just starts getting frustrated because he did not make it clear what he wanted done.

The video with Budo Jake and Rickson was retarded. Fighting is not a pushing contest. This is a great example of incomplete BJJ concepts that ignore striking (or weapons). Try that stunt against a guy with a $50 Spyderco!

Budo Jake had no idea what Rickson wanted. I thought it was a cheap shot to make Budo Jake look dumb. He is not. Budo Jake is obviously no Rickson Gracie. But, he is amazingly good.

 

[fanboysareevil]

It was doubtlessly a bit of a cheap shot at Jake, but to derive that Rickson was teaching self-defense wrong because he used an exercise to illustrate a concept is about 8 steps beyond reaching.

 

[jack36767]

If I want to know how to fight one on one under a certain set of rules with a moving goal post, or how to take my gang and dojo storm another gang. I'll ask Rickson...

I won't ask the spoiled little rich kids who've never been in a street fight, surrounded by yes men, and use their family name to promote online promotions and scheme for a cash grab

 

[BJJ_Rage]

So these self defense techniques, they are dynamic? Or are they the same types of training you would find in judo's goshin jitsu? If it is the latter, what is the point of building a system around something judo already teaches?

new combatives its quite dinamic, its a great system actually.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Really??? How about if you live in NYC? It is near impossible to get licensed to carry a gun, you cannot have a knife with a blade over 3 inches and you best make sure you cannot flick that blade open without a second hand or have fun getting arrested, and if you think you are carrying any other weapon worth a shit be prepared to be arrested by the cops. Oh, and God help you if you do use lethal force on someone attacking you in NYC because you will be brought up on charges.

But we could train the GJJ thing and be able to control a fight without even needing to strike, or some kid getting bullied can use grappling without strikes to stop a bully.

I agree, people ask like SD is a life or die situation, is not always like that and getting in a fist fight might sometime be better than not getting into one, specially if you are young and going through school college, not being able to defend yourself could cause psychological damage that you can carry on for life. I rather have my son stand up for himself in school than have him report his classmate, and the be bully for eternity.

Out of curiosity, what are you crying about? Rickson is making a federation with the rules he wants just like the IBJJF did. No one has to join the federation---CHOICE. I know it is crazy. The only strength any federation has is its members and the quality of those members.

agree.

The online belt ONLY means you successfully completed gracie combatives. It is not a blue belt.

Agree, combatives belts its actually a good idea.

Marcelo Garcia does not allow newbs to roll either. This is a fact. I guess he is a fraud.

Barra students are not allow to roll till the 3rd month or so, I think its a retarted rule, but it sure is good to keep custumers coming.

And as far as an attempt to get new students, it seems that this is an attempt to keep self defense in GJJ/BJJ before it is lost to training to enter some contest where you pay $80 to pajama wrestle some other dude in hopes of getting a cheap ass sword.

I believe GC should be part of every single curriculum in any bjj academy.

Holy shit, then every fucking BJJ school is a pyramid scheme. Everyone trains so someday they can get X belt and open up a school. It is all a scam. How does it feel to be part of the pyramid scheme???

wrong, most people do not want to have their own school, most people train for fun SD, sure if you get very very good at it, and you live in the States, you can probably make a life out it, most people cant, nor are interested in.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

If I want to know how to fight one on one under a certain set of rules with a moving goal post, or how to take my gang and dojo storm another gang. I'll ask Rickson...

I won't ask the spoiled little rich kids who've never been in a street fight, surrounded by yes men, and use their family name to promote online promotions and scheme for a cash grab

If you think renner and ralek cant defend them sefl you are out your mind bro. Im quite sure they fuck up plenty normal dudes, I dont think they will beat mma fighters though.

 

[HtomSirveaux]

If I want to know how to fight one on one under a certain set of rules with a moving goal post, or how to take my gang and dojo storm another gang. I'll ask Rickson...

I won't ask the spoiled little rich kids who've never been in a street fight, surrounded by yes men, and use their family name to promote online promotions and scheme for a cash grab

 

[Darwinambrosius]

I think a lot of this is a general step in the right direction. The biggest plus is the online grading being phased out (at least that's what I think it said).

Self-defense marketing is a big thing and it's not going anywhere, but I'd at least like to see people be more realistic in their approaches to it. I've seen too many SD seminars/classes that are just plain bullshit.

I'm glad they're implementing rolling at white belt too, even if were to be after a certain point (like X number of classes, which isn't something I necessarily disagree with).

 

[Oldguy]

It was doubtlessly a bit of a cheap shot at Jake, but to derive that Rickson was teaching self-defense wrong because he used an exercise to illustrate a concept is about 8 steps beyond reaching.

He wasn't doing a very good job of illustrating the concept or Jake would have had a clue on how to help him. Actually, it was a perfect example of the fact that every self defense problem does not require a grappling solution. The first rule of self defense is not to let an obviously hostile person in your personal space. If someone is in your personal space, you have a much lower chance of defending yourself if he decides to attack. That, by definition, is what a sucker punch is. You are a sucker for letting him get close enough to hit you.

 

[mogawai]

I guess the move from Rickson isn't entirely surprising as his whole approach to BJJ is virtually identical to the Torrance guys(suggestion of ownership/stewardship and/or an assumed position of moral authority over everyone). Ill say it again, the Torrance guys are probably the best marketers and businessmen in BJJ. Their presentational manner is much better than the 'BJJ eye candy' that most other sites offer. Is it a product im interested in, absolutely not.

Rickson- He's an intriguing guy mainly due to the lack of data about him apart from annecdotal tales and some early matches in Japan. How many senior competitors has he produced, not many. By even Krons admisson, Rickson didnt play any serious and active role in his development.

In my mind the Torrance guys would catch no flak whatsoever if they had a traditional academy approach(people train with themselves and/or affiliates, get promoted etc) but the online promotion platfrom really degrades their standing. The same can be said about constant critiques about MMA matches.

I find the Global Federations approach as arrogant and presumptive in the extreeme. Their failed first launch learnt nothing from their failure and is in my mind an attempt to regain a senior driving role for members of the gracie family when the sport has simply moved on from having a few monolithic individuals feeling they have a hereditary role in dirrecting a whole sphere of activity. In my mind the best thing to do is ignore it and it will fail again.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

wrong, most people do not want to have their own school, most people train for fun SD, sure if you get very very good at it, and you live in the States, you can probably make a life out it, most people cant, nor are interested in.

I know, I was just being a smart ass here.

Self-defense marketing is a big thing and it's not going anywhere.

Every single BJJ school talks about SD on their website. Every one. But most of them do not teach it at all.

If I want to know how to fight one on one under a certain set of rules with a moving goal post, or how to take my gang and dojo storm another gang. I'll ask Rickson...

I won't ask the spoiled little rich kids who've never been in a street fight, surrounded by yes men, and use their family name to promote online promotions and scheme for a cash grab

So you would not ask someone who spent a lifetime training and teaching BJJ with a SD focus? Basically an expert? You would not seek expert advice? I believe you.

Ralek beat sakuraba. There is an old video of Rener fighting some kid in high school.

The video with Budo Jake and Rickson was retarded. Fighting is not a pushing contest.

I have been in over 20 street fights. All of them involved pushing. None of them involved weapons to a point of being used...being drawn yes, but being used no.

Pushing is the most likely precursor to a one on one fight. Second to that would be the sucker punch. GC goes over both of these scenarios.

PS - Fact is GB black belt got exposed. If you are a BB and do not know simple SD stuff you need to go back and learn it, if not for yourself to be able to teach your students who think they are learning a system to defend themselves...well, that is at least what your website is claiming.

Rickson- How many senior competitors has he produced, not many. ..

Who gives a shit. Many more people train BJJ for SD than competition.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

In my mind the Torrance guys would catch no flak whatsoever if they had a traditional academy approach(people train with themselves and/or affiliates, get promoted etc) but the online promotion platfrom really degrades their standing. The same can be said about constant critiques about MMA matches.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The CTC program is solid. Instructors are regularly required to train and be re-certified by Torrance, Rener and Ryron almost exclusive do seminars through CTC and so on and rank promotion for non-level 4 schools have to come from Torrance.

I don't see how this is worse than how most affiliations work: X name of the affiliation comes to town for a seminar, and promotions/stripes are awarded if you go to said seminar. Let's not pretend that this isn't how a lot of people operate.

 

[Zankou]

Yep. I trained at Rickson's for awhile back in the day. He took no interest in any serious development of his school or students. Only interested in payment. I can get the same long impassioned speeches about self defense from literally any martial arts teacher on the planet, in any art. These ardent speeches have zero---literally zero---relation to any empirical reality.

You see this when it comes to how martial arts schools approach self defense. They incorporate almost nothing that might erode their marketing edge. You can't sell inner guru-wisdom truth that you don't control. And what is not marketable is not monetizable, it cannot generate profit margins. So they instead focus on selling *marketable* self defense, which involves *establishing and promoting the uniqueness* of their art relative to others. It's all about producing a unique brand, solidifying control over it, distinguishing it from competition, and monetizing it. The entire concept of self defense is fatally compromised by its subjugation to the business needs of being monetizable relative to the credentials/image of those marketing it. From the start, they never gave it a chance to live.

 

[Darwinambrosius]

I know, I was just being a smart ass here.



Every single BJJ school talks about SD on their website. Every one. But most of them do not teach it at all.



So you would not ask someone who spent a lifetime training and teaching BJJ with a SD focus? Basically an expert? You would not seek expert advice? I believe you.

Ralek beat sakuraba. There is an old video of Rener fighting some kid in high school.



I have been in over 20 street fights. All of them involved pushing. None of them involved weapons to a point of being used...being drawn yes, but being used no.

Pushing is the most likely precursor to a one on one fight. Second to that would be the sucker punch. GC goes over both of these scenarios.

PS - Fact is GB black belt got exposed. If you are a BB and do not know simple SD stuff you need to go back and learn it, if not for yourself to be able to teach your students who think they are learning a system to defend themselves...well, that is at least what your website is claiming.



Who gives a shit. Many more people train BJJ for SD than competition.

So you quoted a snippet of my post to reaffirm what I said?

 

[BJJChess]

Jiu Jitsu that does not work on the street is not a Jiu Jitsu. It's nothing but a game, not a martial art for sure.

 

[Oldguy]

20 street fights? You must be a real A hole that people don't like. If your fights started with pushing, you did it wrong. And, just because you have not experienced weapons in a fight, it doesn't mean they don't exist. As a matter of fact, if you did experience weapons in a fight, I suspect you would not be here to type your ridiculous replies because you weren't prepared.

No GB black belt got exposed. I would love to see you roll with Budo Jake. He would make you cry like a girl.

Go back to your mom's basement and watch your pixelated porn like the child you are.