Rickson Gracie FAQ

[Title Fight Productions]

i heard a story from kron that when him and his dad were in japan they were training with andre galvao and rickson had to correct galvao's bridge while mounted/umpah (a basic fundamental that white belts are taught on the first day of class) because he was doing it wrong, and galvao is a world champ, u guys are all getting butt hurt over nothing, even world champs need improvement in their game, everything can be done more efficient and there is no one more qualified than rickson in efficiently using jiu jitsu

like he said in that interview people need to realize that jiu jitsu is a complete fighting art, u dont really need to cross train because if ur jiu jitsu is perfect, u will always be in a position that takes away the other fighters strengths and jiu jitsu alone is more than capable of that, u guys train in jiu jitsu and u question it's philosophy so much, i have to agree with rickson that pure jiu jitsu does not exist here because obvioulsy people are getting it twisted, im just happy i train at rickson's academy and i have kron passing on his father's philosophy to myself and my team

WAR JIU JITSU!!

Well i think its a theory and i can understand the whole "why train kickboxing if your going to fight a kickboxer, no matter how long you train you arn't going to have as good of kickboxing as him so why fight him with kickboxing in mind" theory.

I think people are taking his philosophy way to literal imo.

 

[Hades666]

Why is the 50/50 not good for self defence? Heel hooking someone or inverted heel hooking someone will end a fight.

As for rickson's comments on cross training... Come on, he crosstrained in judo and wrestling himself... and a little sambo

let's say u pull 50/50 on some big dude in the street, you may get hurt if u dont instantly sweep or submit, all he is saying is there are more efficient ways of defending urself

we train 50/50 defense at my school so i know there are ways to buy time and this can lead to a stale mate but the thing is, both your legs are tied up while only his 1 leg is tied up, he may just heel the shit out of u

i like to defend 50/50 by getting a sleeve grip and bringing my trapped leg's knee to the ground, there i feel in base and safe from heel hooks plus i feel like i could hurt someone while they just held onto my leg in a street fight scenario, they would have to move if i could start gouging their eyes

 

[Hades666]

Good points from Title Fight and others. It's true Rickson himself crosstrained, if not in striking. That being said, I've never seen any jiu-jitsu player with Rickson's timing, grace, and balance. I think he has himself in mind when he talks as if you just take the guy down and submit him--badda bing, badda boom! If anybody could have made waves with that style, it would be a prime Rickson. We've got Maia now, and that's about it. And of course, even his pure-grappling train got stopped.

I guess what I'm saying is, there might be a grain of truth to the ideer that if you have ungodly jiu-jitsu, cross-training may not be as important. Now the idea that your average up and coming fighter can aspire to that? Eh, not so sound.

maia got KTFO'd tryin to kickbox, he didnt even use jiu jitsu in that fight

 

[Hades666]

Dude we get it, you train with Kron and you think his really cool, stop telling us in every post - NO ONE CARES ANYMORE!

Can someone who trains with Roger come and counter everything this guy says by ending it with "well I would know, I train with Roger Gracie".

i train under rickson's son, i am a humble person, i only say it because it has relevance in this thread, if i didnt say it then u would be spouting "where did u get your info mr know it all" im not trying to brag so STFU, whenever u quote me u r just tryin to annoy me, that's what a troll is buddy

 

[Hades666]

hey supereem, in response to ur rambling on the other page, u sound like an idiot saying the stance that rickson uses is stupid, what is so stupid about staying out of range and then entering into range by trying to buckle someones knee and then changing levels for the double leg, that's how u avoid getting kneed in the face and entering into range safely

dude just get lost u r fuckin annoying

 

[Hades666]

Well i think its a theory and i can understand the whole "why train kickboxing if your going to fight a kickboxer, no matter how long you train you arn't going to have as good of kickboxing as him so why fight him with kickboxing in mind" theory.

I think people are taking his philosophy way to literal imo.

i dont get what u mean, elaborate a lil por favor

 

[teamcarvalho]

Well i think its a theory and i can understand the whole "why train kickboxing if your going to fight a kickboxer, no matter how long you train you arn't going to have as good of kickboxing as him so why fight him with kickboxing in mind" theory.

I think people are taking his philosophy way to literal imo.

Your right....I mean if you have been doing BJJ for over 15 years and you train in Muay Thai 1 year......you obviously better use your BJJ if your fighting a stand up fighter. I mean Maia was doing good until he decided he wanted to fight using Muay Thai.

It takes years getting good in boxing or Muay Thai..... especially to fight in the ring

 

[Deleted member 267581]

18. When Vale-Tudos began, the Gracies promulgated the theory that, without points and without time limits, technique will always defeat strength. Do you still believe that?

Rickson: No, that is completely antiquated. Those criteria were given when it was jiu-jitsu versus bigger guys, or jiu-jitsu versus boxing, or jiu-jitsu versus wrestling. Nowadays there doesn't exist jiu-jitsu versus nothing. Everyone knows everything, and everybody has their style [e muito vale o individuo]. Guys are using the drugs and pumping the irons, have enormous resistance and and a modicum of technique. The criterion that technique will overcome power is true only if the adversary has no technique, only power. But that doesn't exist anymore. There isn't anyone who doesn't know nothing anymore [everyone knows something].


carlson gracie also said that this was true. Only rorian spews this bullshit and to an extent royce as well.

TEchnique will beat pure power. But pure power and decent technique is incredibly hard to stop.

 

[Balto]

yes and if u have a problem with that statement go challenge him or go have your instructor challenge him

This line of argument is hilarious.

Somehow because it's Rickson, everyone who disagrees is hiding from him. Yet it is Rickson who is the one who is not competing in the Mundials and not competing in MMA.

These guys are going out there and winning the world championships. These guys are going out there and winning UFC fights. They are putting themselves out there for anyone to fight. If Rickson wants to prove something, the opportunity is there for him.

I know that he is older and retired now so he wouldn't necessarily be expected to do this himself, but he could have his team do it. Yet Kron has never won anything at the black belt level, and he has no top MMA fighters using his pure BJJ philosophy.

Again, these guys whom Rickson is criticizing are the ones showing up to the Mundials and bagging medals. These guys are the ones who are winning pro MMA at the highest levels. They are in no way ducking challenges.

 

[Balto]

Why is the 50/50 not good for self defence? Heel hooking someone or inverted heel hooking someone will end a fight.

As for rickson's comments on cross training... Come on, he crosstrained in judo and wrestling himself... and a little sambo

Another reason why his negative comments on cross training are hard to take seriously. He has himself cross trained in other arts.

Weren't there pictures of him doing Sambo only a few page ago? How come it isn't cross training when he does it to succeed, but when other people do it, it's watering down BJJ?

 

[Balto]

Source?

Sorry, but I'm not going to give a specific source on that.

If you want to disregard it as unverified because of that, that's okay. It's really not that relevant to the discussion anyway.

 

[Balto]

Good points from Title Fight and others. It's true Rickson himself crosstrained, if not in striking. That being said, I've never seen any jiu-jitsu player with Rickson's timing, grace, and balance. I think he has himself in mind when he talks as if you just take the guy down and submit him--badda bing, badda boom! If anybody could have made waves with that style, it would be a prime Rickson. We've got Maia now, and that's about it. And of course, even his pure-grappling train got stopped.

I guess what I'm saying is, there might be a grain of truth to the ideer that if you have ungodly jiu-jitsu, cross-training may not be as important. Now the idea that your average up and coming fighter can aspire to that? Eh, not so sound.

I think this is where a lot of the frustration comes from.

Everyone knows that Rickson is extremely accomplished in BJJ -- one of the best ever. The frustrating part is that he keeps attributing this solely to his pure GJJ system, yet nobody else has been able to achieve Rickson's level using that system.

Rickson does not approve of people who deviate from his system, and that is his right. He is certainly entitled to his opinion. I just don't see how it helps people trying to improve though since nobody seems to be able to use his system to achieve the greatness he speaks about.

Rickson's whole system is shrouded in mystery. It's very philosophical, but it's scant on the details of how to actually use it. He has no instructionals, and he stopped teaching at his school in California a while ago. He has been doing a seminar circuit in the past few years, but he makes those in attendance promise to keep the techniques secret. For the rare information that comes out concerning these techniques, usually the person transmitting the information has trouble understanding it himself, let alone being able to communicate that well to others. It's just a very, very subtle and abstract system.

I guess that is why it is called Invisible Jiu-Jitsu, and although I don't deny that it seems to be extremely effective for Rickson, if Rickson is the only one who can see it, how can it be taught?

Ultimately, I'm always going to have respect for Rickson no matter what just because of all the great things he has accomplished in his life. But as far as his recent theories and statements go, I just don't see how many people can use those to help when Rickson is the only person who seems to even be able to comprehend them, let alone actually use them practically in competition or an MMA match.

Rickson is on another level, and he may very well just understand BJJ on a level that no one else can comprehend. I can accept and respect that. But as far as what I use to advance my own, admittedly limited, knowledge of BJJ, I am going to seek out the other instructors who present a much clearer path that myself and others seem to be able to comprehend and use successfully.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Balto, you made some excellent points on this thread, your participation has brought up many quality points for discussion. Thanks for joining it.

I don`t think you should take it as an insult, and neither should today`s top competitiors take it as an insult, when Rickson insinuates that the x-guard and 50-50 are far from what GJJ originally focuses on. That is true.

What a guy said up there about GJJ having been "diluted", that is true also for Brazil. Remember, jiu jitsu is now a SPORT. A SPORT is trained. A sport that is still closely similar to the martial art that it comes from, which makes it still very effective and real life, no doubt, but a sport nonetheless. With sport techniques, that can`t be applied in real life. That is what happened to karate, judo, all martial arts that became non-full contact sports.

Now, as for what is being trained all over the world, I assure you it is not different from GJJ, just with a different focus. In a sense, BJJ is to GJJ what BJJ is to Judo. Same things, different focus. Even so, many things are completely forgotten and aren`t taught.

Case in point, I invite thread members to reply:

1- When was the last time you had full contact sparring, with strikes, at your BJJ gym during BJJ class?

2- When was the last time you trained striking defense from the guard, half-guard, and mount?

3- When was the last time you trained striking and submission combos?

4- When was the last time you trained: stomps, standing elbows, low kicks, double legs without knees on the floor, and self-defense moves?


Should a person be learning x-guard when they have never trained, at least, striking defense from the guard? I don't think so. Neither do most people I know.

Balto, you're right: it is hard to agree with what Rickson says about crosstraining. I can see you take that as a huge problem. Honestly? I can't argue for him there. I don't see what he sees, but I respect his opinion: he has earned the right to have his opinion be respected, especially when he expresses it so candidly. And he does. Rickson is very aware of the weight of his words, and he has taken extra care in making his negative points as lightly and delicately and politely as possible, most of the time.

As far as Rickson crosstraining, the fact is he did do that, they all did that following the leadership of Rolls. But not only did they compete in those arts in order to try to prove the superiority of JJ as a martial art, they also sought to absorb those arts into their own, which they did. Essentially, JJ includes wrestling, and sambo, and catch, and anything they find there. It wasn't, and isn't, a closed and fixed art. Jiu jitsu is not a set of techniques, jiu jitsu is a principle "the smaller man can defeat a larger man by staying safe and achieving dominant positions from which they can incapacitate the opponent".

The 3 principles of jiu jitsu: Safety. Position. Incapacitation.

Since BJJ was NHB grappling, anything goes and anything that is useful , wherever it is found, is absorbed into the system. It isn't the same as crosstraining into striking arts.

Also, remember that Rickson is not concerned with competition, he is mostly concerned with character development and self-defense for the weak.

I also think you made your other points, especially on this last post, very well. So
Last but not least ,Balto, there really is nothing shrouded in mystery in Rickson's JJ. It is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. That's all.

You are right in that his martial art philosophy has transcended into the taoistic principle of point zero that we have seen already in internal martial arts ( Aikido, Tai Chi, Kendo) and which even Bruce Lee sought. "The art of fighting without fighting", "The art of winning without drawing your sword", "When a man tries to strike me, he has already lost" etc.

Can he prove it? I don't think he will. Which means that for us, like you said, it doesn't matter that much: pick your teachers and your paths as you can and are willing to follow them. Guys like Rickson really aren't meant to be followed, they simply aren't even the same as us to begin with.

 

[Balto]

Can he prove it? I don't think he will. Which means that for us, like you said, it doesn't matter that much: pick your teachers and your paths as you can and are willing to follow them. Guys like Rickson really aren't meant to be followed, they simply aren't even the same as us to begin with.

Yeah I guess I just need to accept that part.

It's tough at first because I've never met anyone who didn't have a lot of respect for Rickson's ability. Even the guys I have heard some frustration from still had massive respect for Rickson. He has clearly earned it.

The frustration comes from the inability to follow him. It's natural to want to improve yourself, and Rickson has achieved a great level so others would like to do so as well. When they don't see a path to do so, it causes frustration.

But you are right that at this point, Rickson is not meant to be emulated or followed. Rickson is Rickson, and his name has more than enough respect to stand on its own. I'll just let that be.

 

[Balto]

Case in point, I invite thread members to reply:

1- When was the last time you had full contact sparring, with strikes, at your BJJ gym during BJJ class?

2- When was the last time you trained striking defense from the guard, half-guard, and mount?

3- When was the last time you trained striking and submission combos?

4- When was the last time you trained: stomps, standing elbows, low kicks, double legs without knees on the floor, and self-defense moves?

1. One month ago
2. One month ago
3. One month ago
4. Six months to a year ago

It's worth noting that where I train BJJ now is mostly focused on sport. However, I have friends elsewhere who focus more on MMA and self-defense, so when I travel I train with them in those areas.

I have found that my developments in sport BJJ have translated over to MMA and self-defense a great deal. So I am able to see very real improvements in those areas through my sport training.

That is not to say that my sport BJJ training is the ideal method for those areas. It is not. However, it certainly does not ignore them either.

 

[Oak]

yes and if u have a problem with that statement go challenge him or go have your instructor challenge him

At first I thought you were joking, but then I read your second reply and realized you believe everything you are typing. My instructor already made Kron tap, I can't lie I would love to see him go against Rickson.

 

[Oak]

I know that he is older and retired now so he wouldn't necessarily be expected to do this himself, but he could have his team do it. Yet Kron has never won anything at the black belt level, and he has no top MMA fighters using his pure BJJ philosophy.

Again, these guys whom Rickson is criticizing are the ones showing up to the Mundials and bagging medals. These guys are the ones who are winning pro MMA at the highest levels. They are in no way ducking challenges.

Saulo just came out of retirement and crushed. Would be nice to see Rickson do the same.

 

[teamcarvalho]

Balto, you made some excellent points on this thread, your participation has brought up many quality points for discussion. Thanks for joining it.

I don`t think you should take it as an insult, and neither should today`s top competitiors take it as an insult, when Rickson insinuates that the x-guard and 50-50 are far from what GJJ originally focuses on. That is true.

What a guy said up there about GJJ having been "diluted", that is true also for Brazil. Remember, jiu jitsu is now a SPORT. A SPORT is trained. A sport that is still closely similar to the martial art that it comes from, which makes it still very effective and real life, no doubt, but a sport nonetheless. With sport techniques, that can`t be applied in real life. That is what happened to karate, judo, all martial arts that became non-full contact sports.

Now, as for what is being trained all over the world, I assure you it is not different from GJJ, just with a different focus. In a sense, BJJ is to GJJ what BJJ is to Judo. Same things, different focus. Even so, many things are completely forgotten and aren`t taught.

Case in point, I invite thread members to reply:

1- When was the last time you had full contact sparring, with strikes, at your BJJ gym during BJJ class?

2- When was the last time you trained striking defense from the guard, half-guard, and mount?

3- When was the last time you trained striking and submission combos?

4- When was the last time you trained: stomps, standing elbows, low kicks, double legs without knees on the floor, and self-defense moves?


Should a person be learning x-guard when they have never trained, at least, striking defense from the guard? I don't think so. Neither do most people I know.

Balto, you're right: it is hard to agree with what Rickson says about crosstraining. I can see you take that as a huge problem. Honestly? I can't argue for him there. I don't see what he sees, but I respect his opinion: he has earned the right to have his opinion be respected, especially when he expresses it so candidly. And he does. Rickson is very aware of the weight of his words, and he has taken extra care in making his negative points as lightly and delicately and politely as possible, most of the time.

As far as Rickson crosstraining, the fact is he did do that, they all did that following the leadership of Rolls. But not only did they compete in those arts in order to try to prove the superiority of JJ as a martial art, they also sought to absorb those arts into their own, which they did. Essentially, JJ includes wrestling, and sambo, and catch, and anything they find there. It wasn't, and isn't, a closed and fixed art. Jiu jitsu is not a set of techniques, jiu jitsu is a principle "the smaller man can defeat a larger man by staying safe and achieving dominant positions from which they can incapacitate the opponent".

The 3 principles of jiu jitsu: Safety. Position. Incapacitation.

Since BJJ was NHB grappling, anything goes and anything that is useful , wherever it is found, is absorbed into the system. It isn't the same as crosstraining into striking arts.

Also, remember that Rickson is not concerned with competition, he is mostly concerned with character development and self-defense for the weak.

I also think you made your other points, especially on this last post, very well. So
Last but not least ,Balto, there really is nothing shrouded in mystery in Rickson's JJ. It is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. That's all.

You are right in that his martial art philosophy has transcended into the taoistic principle of point zero that we have seen already in internal martial arts ( Aikido, Tai Chi, Kendo) and which even Bruce Lee sought. "The art of fighting without fighting", "The art of winning without drawing your sword", "When a man tries to strike me, he has already lost" etc.

Can he prove it? I don't think he will. Which means that for us, like you said, it doesn't matter that much: pick your teachers and your paths as you can and are willing to follow them. Guys like Rickson really aren't meant to be followed, they simply aren't even the same as us to begin with.

This was a good response........I believe that all three components of BJJ compliment each other and every BJJ practitioner needs to do all three. You need self defense and Vale-Tudo training as well as sport.......if one does not do all three he loses out on the effectiveness of BJJ.

 

[DonkeyKong]

At first I thought you were joking, but then I read your second reply and realized you believe everything you are typing. My instructor already made Kron tap, I can't lie I would love to see him go against Rickson.

"Treino n

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Jiu jitsu is not a set of techniques, jiu jitsu is a principle "the smaller man can defeat a larger man by staying safe and achieving dominant positions from which they can incapacitate the opponent".

Is this GJJ or Helio's version of GJJ?