Rickson Gracie FAQ

ASiAnVaLEtUDo said:
Fadda's gyms descend down to Nova Uniao and the current most well known student descended from Fadda is Wendell Alexander from Brazil. Wendell Alexander merged with Andre Pederneiras (Carlson Gracie BB) to form Nova Uniao. THere are still a decent number of students around who may be able to trace back to Fadda and most of them are Wendell Alexander's students. COntrary to popular belief, there are lineages that will not include a Gracie in there. The side of BJJ coming from Oswaldo Fadda's side is quite unfortunate that it isn't well known as they developed it just as good as the Gracies but did not have the wealth or powerful influences to spread the art to such a magnitude the Gracies did. For now, I would say Wagney Fabiano is the most famous Fadda-gym descended BJJ guy as Wagney is a BB from Wendell Alexander. The lineage from Fadda goes right back to Mitsuyo Maeda refer to my sig for the entire thing

What I am interested in is what Andre Pederneiras's relationship with Carlson was as he got his BB from him. I don't hear too much about their relationship if any and wondered how Andre came to split/leave to form the new team.
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Wow, I cant believe I posted the founders of Nova Uniao without knowing that Wendell was of Fadda lineage! Thanks a lot for that update.

I'll try to look into the Dede/Carlson split.
 
I also forgot about Robson Moura. I am quite sure that Robson was with somebody else before and then later he became a part of Nova Uniao under Wendell Alexander. FOr a while, he would have his hugeass banner in the audience when he competed waving the Nova uniao flag and Wendell Alexander's name on it. Also, Bruno Bastos is from Wendell too so as of now, I know Wagnney Fabiano, Bruno Bastos, and possibly Robson Moura are descended down from Oswaldo Fadda's line as well as my instructor. He says there are also numerous black belts he was old friends with (from Wendell's gym I assume) but has lost contact with
 
What happened with the split from CBJJ and CBJJO? Were certain teams not allowed to compete in CBJJO? You mention guys split from Alliance because they wanted to be in CBJJO. Did this cause more alliances among teams? I notice Nova Uniao team is not know by some instructors as much as the other teams. How prestigous is the CBJJO? I know it is not as big as Mundials though. Also, why did Carlos Gracie Jr. oppose prize money for the fighters?

Also, relating back to the original topic of the thread, not wanting to turn this into a Nova uniao thread.

They say Carlson was the first to show advanced positions to outsiders of the family while Helio's side saved them for the family elite. Does anyone have any idea what these techniques were? And what did Helio and other family members think of this? Did this cause any tension between them?

Another claim I have heard is that a Carlson Gracie fighter has never lost to a Helio trained fighter. Any info on this? I can't think of anyone from Carlson who could have beaten Relson (back in the day) and Rickson who are the two top dogs of Helio.
 
DonkeyKong said:
I'll try to look into the Dede/Carlson split.
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No split, Dede moved away. I remember reading Pedneiras saying Carlson was supportive of NU. Gave them quotes and stuff to use in Ads.

And I don't think there was much animosity between Carlson and Helio. When the BJJ/LL fights went down, Helio and Carlos went to Carlson to train the BJJ guys. Helio also would send guys to train at Carlson's sometimes to experience a different style of BJJ. Rickson said in an interview once his dad would encourage him to go roll with Carlson,Rolls,etc.. to experience different bodytypes/styles.
 
Rickson actually just returned to LA today from Brazil for a little while. He's going to be in the west LA academy next week. I'll try to run some of these thoughts by him and get his reaction.
 
Drew - I've got that edition of Surfer at home. Glad you mentioned it -- I'll have to ask Rickson to sign it.
 
johil d'o said:
Rickson actually just returned to LA today from Brazil for a little while. He's going to be in the west LA academy next week. I'll try to run some of these thoughts by him and get his reaction.
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Can you ask him if he is still planning on doing a seminar in texas(icbjj.com were advertising a 2 day seminar with him, it never seemed to materialize)?

or if he is planning on doing any more seminars in the US?
 
There is an article of Rickson in the last Gracie Magazine as well. It's a tribute to his skills as teacher. Several black belts who'd trained with him tell their stories about how is it like rolling with Rickson. Apparently, he only submit Fabio Gurgel after rolling for a half hour and at the end Rickson was exhausted.
 
Fabio Gurgel is also an awesome teacher producing some major phenoms. I remember some dude saying in another thread that Rickson would submit Gurgel 6 times in half an hour but I really doubted that would happen
 
A black belt instructor of mine has been friends with the Machados and Gracies for years. My instructor is very close to Rigan and says even the great Rigan Machado is in awe of Rickson's ability. Rickson is the only person to have beaten Rigan as I understand and he's done it twice.
 
AVT, thanks for the Carlson and NU info. They helped make this thread more complete.

johil'do, if you're gonna meet the man, it would be very appreciatead if you could get him to take maybe a few seconds to clear up some of the doubts lifted in this thread.
 
DonkeyKong said:
This is absolutely priceless. Great addition, thanks a lot.
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Orlando Cani
This is from BJJ legends interview with Alvaro- no mention of Cani
BJJlegend interview

Hey DK, Great thread.
I believe Alvaro Romano is a black belt under Rickson. I've seen some interviews on the net that Alvaro states he has trained Rickson about Ginastica Natural. But the article about Rickson studing under Orlando Cani seems clear. Orlando Cani in his own words says he's the one who trained Rickson.
Secondly, Alvaro doesn't seem to include Cani in any of his interviews that I have read. He makes it seem like he invented the whole thing on his own. I'm a bit confused, maybe Alvaro is a good marketer and left Cani to the side so he can the spotlight. What's your take on this?
 
BrokBakJiuJitsu said:
Orlando Cani
This is from BJJ legends interview with Alvaro- no mention of Cani
BJJlegend interview

Hey DK, Great thread.
I believe Alvaro Romano is a black belt under Rickson. I've seen some interviews on the net that Alvaro states he has trained Rickson about Ginastica Natural. But the article about Rickson studing under Orlando Cani seems clear. Orlando Cani in his own words says he's the one who trained Rickson.
Secondly, Alvaro doesn't seem to include Cani in any of his interviews that I have read. He makes it seem like he invented the whole thing on his own. I'm a bit confused, maybe Alvaro is a good marketer and left Cani to the side so he can the spotlight. What's your take on this?
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Read the Orlando Cani article again. If I recall correctly (the site is down right now), Cani covers the Alvaro Romano situation in it. When it's up, check it out.
 
easy tiger said:
Read the Orlando Cani article again. If I recall correctly (the site is down right now), Cani covers the Alvaro Romano situation in it. When it's up, check it out.
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yea I did read it and Cani stats Alvaro was his student for 13 yrs. Cani also says Alvaro patented the name "Natural Gymnastic". Cani called it disgusting and disappointing. Cani says Rickson was his best student. If this is all true, it just seems Alvaro is back stabbed his teacher and is taking all the credit. I had no idea about Cani before this thread. I was hoping to clear up the who taught Rickson thing cause Alvaro is apparently make money off of bogus claims.
I don't know Alvaro, he might be a nice guy, but at the very least he should not b.s. everyone cause Natural Gymnastic is really blowing up
 
I was just rewatching Choke, and in it Rickson explains his style in his own words.

He says that he seeks to be at a point zero, from where he can react to his opponents' mistakes and finish the fight. Point zero is where you do not expose yourself at all and are perfectly aware of your opponents.

Whenever a fighter attacks, with striking, or shoots in, or takes any chance, he leaves point zero. This is how Helio fought: tight, defensive, and patient, until his opponents made mistakes. This is the basic principle of GracieJiu jitsu as developed by Helio.

When fighting a man of inferior technique, it might compensate to take some minor risks, but against a much bigger, stronger or younger opponent, if you leave point zero he will make you pay.

This is why Rickson critiziced Nog, because Nog strikes, takes risks, instead of being at point zero.

Now, this mentality does not apply to MMA. MMA is a sport, with judges and time limits and rules. Which is why Royce quit the UFC when time was added and only went back to MMA with time limits as an MMA fighter, no longer just pure jiu jitsu.

Machida is an interesting example of a fighter who applies point zero principle to his standup. Only time I saw him take risks were in some minor flurries against BJ , Rashad, etc.
 
yeahiknow said:
But Rener and Ryron compete all the time.
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yeahiknow said:
I'm not a 100% but I think he competed in the pan ams and well Ralek fought in Dream, so is the bjj still considered just self defence?
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They do not compete all the time at all. And they definitely did not compete in the pan ams.

Get your facts straight.

What they tell their students is that their bjj (excuse me, gjj) is self defense and made for the street. So a "competitive" bjj player will beat them in a competition but they would win in the street. The reality is a competitive bjj guy would win in a competition and in the "street" due to battle tested techniques and reactions.
 
I must be the only BJJ practitioner in the world to find all this Rickson worship creepy.

Maybe it's because I don't believe in putting human beings on such high pedastools.
 
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